The End of Spiritual Seeking with Trina Dawn

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Well, Trina, thank you for joining me today. [00:00:03] Speaker B: Yeah, excited to be here. [00:00:06] Speaker A: So, yeah, getting this thing started. Would you be able to give us a little bit about who you are and what you do? [00:00:13] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So I talk about the end of spiritual seeking and what that looks like, what that actually looks like. Because there's many people who are on what we would call a spiritual path, a spiritual journey towards awakening, towards finding their true nature or whatever kind of conceptual label that they've learned, that they are working towards through practices, through, you know, lessons, information. And that was something that I got very much wrapped up in for many, many years. I was on a spiritual journey, ardently seeking, seeking for God, seeking for awakening. And so I talk about what that actually looks like and I talk about the simplicity that the end of the spiritual journey is actually pointing to. Because we have these ideas that, you know, we hear about, like liberation and enlightenment. Like it's this massive, you know, dimension that we step into where all of our problems are dissolved. But in actuality, what I've come to realize is that awakening is truly recognizing what's always here, recognizing what doesn't change, recognizing what you always are. And since it's already here and it's already what you are, my approach is to guide people directly to that. And so I offer the direct pointing, which are one on one sessions that bring people into a clarity that's always here beyond the personal identity, you know, which is just a thought construct, which is just a story containing the past and the future. And I share information that helps to demystify awakening and non duality and really just simplify what liberation actually looks like in an everyday context. [00:02:30] Speaker A: Amazing. All right, so could you guide us a little bit here now? Give us a little taste of that simplicity? [00:02:41] Speaker B: Sure. Oh, yeah. Okay. [00:02:45] Speaker A: I don't want to put you on the spot, but. No, I think it'll be probably the best way to go about this, you know? [00:02:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, we can start off by just taking a nice long, slow breath in and out. And just in this very moment, what's here, without any effort. [00:03:20] Speaker A: The seeing. What's here is the seeing. [00:03:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:25] Speaker A: And it's the same seeing that you see through and the audience sees through. [00:03:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And your favorite guru see through as well. Yeah. [00:03:39] Speaker A: And every other guru of the past. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So is that it? [00:03:46] Speaker B: No, no, no. Well, yeah. So, I mean, there's a seeing here. Does it take any effort to just exist in this moment, to just be alive right now? Right. Life is just here. It's happening Already, Right. There's no mini Gary somewhere spinning a wheel, making sure that you stay alive for the next 15 minutes. Right. There's just life here already, effortlessly. Yeah. So what are you without language right now? Just invite you to go into an experience of observing what's around, but to take away the words. [00:04:54] Speaker A: I don't answer that question. What are you without language? Yeah, the mind wants to answer. I mean, there are several words that come to mind, but as you're saying, none of them do it justice, right? [00:05:18] Speaker B: Exactly. It would just be another word, Right. Another label. Yeah, but there's something that's behind the words. There's something behind all of the spiritual concepts. That's not a concept. That doesn't depend on a concept or a practice or an expression of morality even to be here. Right. So take away the past and the future right now. What are you without the past and the future? [00:06:29] Speaker A: I feel like we can just wrap up the podcast. [00:06:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Just silence. Right? [00:06:33] Speaker A: That's it, everybody. [00:06:34] Speaker B: That's it. [00:06:40] Speaker A: I feel it. [00:06:41] Speaker B: Yeah, there's a piece, right. There's a piece that's here right now, in this moment. And the crazy thing is, is that on the spiritual path, it's easy to get so wrapped up in concepts and lessons and practices and the next. Right. I will find it in the future. I will find myself in a moment other than where I already am. And so we, yeah, we get wrapped up in this fantasy, but we forget to look in the only place that's actually happening. And so, yeah, in my sessions and in my. My speaking, I. I point to this space and, you know, bring people deeper into a recognition that's here beyond their thought, constructed identity. [00:07:33] Speaker A: Now, I'm guessing you went through the spiritual gamut, the seeking yourself in order to come to this realization. So what did it take for you to be able to see the simplicity? [00:07:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I definitely went through the spiritual gamut. I was very excited about, like, right when I first heard about enlightenment, I was like, I was doing a yoga teacher training in India, and I was like, this is what I want. This is what I will go for. Like, give me the practice. Give me. And then, yeah, so I was very enthusiastic about it and trying all sorts of things. Got lots of training in many different areas. You know, I became an astrologer, I became a psychedelic medicine facilitator, I became a yoga teacher, you know, traveled to India multiple times. Lots of meditation, lots of inner child work and medicine journeys, and. And there were definite, definitely benefits there for the character. But I also felt like, there was still something that was missing, that there was still. Like, I was like, I'm doing all this work, but I'm not really like, why is it I just feel so kind of depleted and still depressed, and it's like, when is this gonna happen? You know? [00:08:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:56] Speaker B: And so the direct pointing came into my life during a kind of personal crisis that I was going through. And my mentor was really the first person to tell me to stop. To tell me to stop seeking. And what I'm sharing is not a rejection of spirituality. It's not a rejection of anything. It's. It's just seeing clearly through the illusion that the thoughts can spin about a journey to get to a place that's already here. Right. And so with the pointing and with the seeing that what I was looking for was already what I was the seeking for that just naturally fell away because it was clearly seen that there was no point to continue operating from this place where I was fantasizing a future where everything would be okay, where I would find what I was, because it was already here. And so that was a process that, you know, unfolded very naturally, but the unfolding of it was more of a sobering up rather than a awakening, you know, rather than a I'm in a. Like, everything's just gone. You know, it was more of just a seeing clearly. The naturalness and the spontaneity that just wants to appear without this limitation of thought and identity and shoulds and shouldn't. Duality, basically. Yeah. So that's really what it took, was just offering the direct pointing and just clearly explaining that what you're looking for is right here. Like, you can. You can stop if you want. And so, yeah, I started sharing about it on TikTok. I was doing some social media for a different business that I was involved in, so I just kind of started sharing little insights about the clarity and. And it just started catching on and people started reaching out and wanting to do calls with me. So I set up a booking page and just got on YouTube recently. So I've been uploading some content on there and uploading some of the calls. And it's. Yeah, it's been such an honor to share this. [00:11:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's kind of a joke and sort of ironic, right? The things that we institute into our life for freedom. You know, this yearning for freedom is actually what imprisons us. It's like the last attachment, the spiritual path. You know, the saying of. In Buddhism, it's like at the end of the path, you build the Raft to get to the other side of the shore, but when you get to the other side, you got to let go of the raft. So I think that is the case. Right. For a lot of seekers or just people that are into the spiritualness, the spiritual stuff is holding on too tightly to the raft. [00:11:59] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Kill the Buddha is another thing they say, right? [00:12:03] Speaker A: Yep. Yeah, exactly. That's like a different element though. That's like external, I would say. Same idea. But it's like if you see somebody that is the Buddha, they're not the Buddha. [00:12:16] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:12:16] Speaker A: What is the exact meaning of that? Is it like if you see somebody that is claiming to be like holier than thou, then dispel that idea? [00:12:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it can point to, you know, a character but. Or any just kind of spiritual projection that the mind creates as something that's, you know, a superiority, something that's higher than me. Right. Because we hear about like, you know, spirituality being divine and God and sacred and, and those words are thrown around a lot and I get it. But at the same time it's also pointing to the most mundane, self evident thing that could ever be here ever. Like it's not about a hierarchy and you know, somebody claiming this and saying that they know the answers and that they're more holy or any kind of projection like that the mind wants to create around that. It's. It's just even. Yeah. So I try to simplify it and just point to the everyday simplicity of it. Because the mind creates so many stories. Right. It's just a master storyteller, especially around subjects that it doesn't really understand, like these non conceptual pointings that I share, you know, and from that all of these, you know, crazy or not crazy ideas come out of it and it's just really easy to get sidetracked. [00:13:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:44] Speaker B: So I think that's what they meant by that. [00:13:47] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. It's not like necessarily a Buddha as a person, like Siddhartha Gautama. It's anything that the mind would conceptualize as Buddhahood or. Yeah. Something that is of the Buddha nature. [00:14:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Something that's. [00:14:01] Speaker A: Everything is the Buddha nature in some way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:14:06] Speaker B: Even thoughts, even thought identification. Right. Even getting triggered. [00:14:11] Speaker A: Like it's all the Buddha. [00:14:13] Speaker B: That's it too. Yeah, that's it too. [00:14:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Now do you. Well, let me just clarify when I say it's all the Buddha, because one may say like, well then you'd have to kill it. It's like in that way, if everything's the Buddha, Then nothing's the Buddha. You know what I mean? That's kind of the idea we're going on here. [00:14:34] Speaker B: It's because, like, we're going to a place that words can't really go, so you can make a statement. And then at the same time you're like, yeah, but that's actually not true either, so let that go as well. [00:14:44] Speaker A: Well, that's the case, right? For this realm that we're speaking in, it's like paradox. It's being okay with paradox. So you make one statement and then, yeah, the other one's going to be false. And then the mind's going to try and figure it out and be like, well, wait, not this and. But you said this. And it's just too much. It's just too much of a story. So I'm getting from you is like your. Your work is to, as you said, simplify and get out of or not get out of or be okay with the paradox in some way, right? [00:15:15] Speaker B: Well, it's really only a paradox when you approach it with the mind, right? Because the mind will want to divide reality and it won't just say, okay, the absolute and the relative or duality and non duality. And it makes sense why it does that. But at the same time, those are just made up. There's only what is. Right. So all of that is just an interpretation of thought, but all words are made up, right? Every word is just defined by more words, which are defined by more words. And on and on it goes. So we're like, often duality is really about recognizing that you're living in this echo chamber of words and thoughts, looking for thoughts, concepts looking for concepts. But it just kind of never ends. But. And then at the same time, they're completely empty as well. They're devoid of meaning. They only have. There's no inherent meaning. It's only the meaning that we give it. And so when we search for God or we search for the Absolute through words, it can feel so frustrating because it's just a dog chasing its tail, because the words are trying to go to a place where they cannot go. Right there. There's a ceiling, in a sense. But what I'm pointing to doesn't even need to be understood with words. It doesn't need to be conceptualized. It is. It's already here. It's already the truth. It's already free beyond all concepts of. Free beyond all concepts of truth. So there's nothing here for the mind, right? There's nothing here for the character. There's only what is. But when the mind tries to figure it out, it's like, ah, this is a paradox. And I have to be okay with paradoxes or I have to let everything go, I have to just fully surrender. But that just kind of pulls you into meaning making and the land of made up words. Whereas what I'm trying to do is kind of see, okay, it's okay. There's a space here that, that doesn't need your words in order to be here. [00:17:17] Speaker A: Yeah, it's well said, well said, well spoken. Yeah. This is the irony, that's the. It's a tricky line to toe, I feel you, especially as a podcast host. So it's kind of a, it's kind of funny what, what I do and what we're doing here is using words and using concept to point the way toward the non conceptual self. Right. The, the way out of words. It's tough. It's tricky because, I mean, I don't know, it's because the mind has a lot of attachments. You know, we've been conditioned into the world of words and the path here is working out of words we could say and finding out what's behind the words, as you said before. So yeah, it's a tricky line to toe. Let me ask you this one. Do you think the search, the seeking is needed or at least was needed for your life in order to kind of overcome the search? Yeah, you know what I'm getting at? [00:18:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I get that question a lot. [00:18:34] Speaker A: Like. [00:18:36] Speaker B: That'S how it unfolded for me, right? It unfolded in that way and that's how it unfolds for many people, right? They gotta kiss a bunch of frogs until they find what it is that they're actually looking for. And there's nothing right or wrong about it. I say, like, what else are you gonna do with infinity, right? You're gonna create these journeys and then at the end of it, that's kind of the cosmic joke. Like the universe gives you a little wink and it's like, haha, gotcha. Like you were home the whole time. But it is not necessary. There is benefits to spiritual seeking for sure. In a sense it can, you know, prepare the mind, you know, and sometimes it can be beneficial to have a bit of a foundation of spiritual understanding. But it is very easy to get wrapped up in it. But it also is not completely necessary either. Especially if I'm talking to someone that's been seeking for more than two years. It's like you're just kind of spinning your wheels Especially when it's like topics about non duality and like awakening topics rather than like spiritual new age stuff. I think that's more about, you know, making your life better in the, in the human expression. But people that want to kind of move beyond the human expression and want to just get really clear about what's here, you don't need to be drowning in concepts and practices for years and years and years in order to see clearly what's already here. Right. And so I have brought people into Clarity that didn't have much spiritual background at all. Like maybe they've done a bit of yoga, but even then, like I've. I've even talked to people that have come into Clarity without any spiritual background. So there's no kind of hard, fast black and white rule about is just a very exciting thing to share though. And I feel it is in a sense an evolution of spirituality. The direct pointing that my mentors shared with me and that I'm also sharing because you're meeting the person exactly where they're at in a one on one session, right. Rather than being up on a stage and kind of giving general information and practices to a group of people or writing a book, you're actually, you know, talking to someone and the beliefs will come up and the limiting, you know, stuff will come up and you can just address it and just start calling out the thoughts for what they are. And sometimes it clicks for people right away. Sometimes it takes a number of sessions. But if this is something that really resonates with people and they really do want to wake up, it is really just right here. It really is already what you are. So even the journey was at. [00:21:27] Speaker A: Yeah, coming into clarity. [00:21:29] Speaker B: Coming into clarity. Yeah, sobriety. So even necessary, like even that's just made up. Even that's just a made up word. Like there's no rules about it. But yeah, it's from how I see it now anyway, it really is not necessary to be seeking for years and years and years. [00:21:50] Speaker A: Now. Let me ask you this one. Once we do come into clarity and sobriety, how would you say the character changes? What is different about how. From the seeing our life is, you know, from how we conduct ourselves, how we treat other people, just everything, you know, how would you say. How would you say stuff changes? If it does? [00:22:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it does change. And this can come on very slowly as well. Like it doesn't have to be a sudden thing, but there's definitely a lot more compassion for here, more compassion and understanding for others, for the differences perhaps that Are there. There's an appreciation of the diversity amongst all humans amongst this beautiful miracle that we're all living in. There's a slowing down. There's a savoring of the moment. There's a natural trust, I guess you could say, that's here not because the trust is developed, but because the thoughts of fear are not really believed in anymore. So there's more of a wanting to be where one is rather than a wanting to get somewhere or wanting to, you know, get out, to escape. So those tendencies tend to die off and like an okayness, I guess you could say, a feeling of home and more of a space for an adventure and for a spontaneity of life. Right. The voice that's always like, I gotta be certain. I gotta know. I gotta make all my boxes tick. And rather, it's more like, what's gonna happen? And. And it doesn't have to be super exciting all the time either. There can just be an enjoyment of the simplicity. [00:23:44] Speaker A: Of the mundane. [00:23:45] Speaker B: Of the mundane. Yeah. Just going for a long walk or sitting in nature or cleaning your kitchen. Like, the resistance isn't really there anymore. Like, there's no place for it. There's no belief anymore in the story. Yeah. And so from that, just. It's like kind of a return to innocence. Like just a return to the natural state. Like how children are, you know, like a mature child. [00:24:16] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I heard someone say one time, there's a big difference between being childish and childlike. So that mature child is childlike? [00:24:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Because they're so in the moment. Right. They're not worried about tomorrow. They're just. They're just like, want to play. And the mind takes life so seriously because it believes itself to be temporary and finite and, you know, constricted to this identity and past that it feels threatened when its beliefs are threatened. Right. And then the nervous system reacts because that belief is real. And so there's like this entangled web that's happening that we take ourselves to be these thoughts. But when you actually look for that, I. When you look for the identity, you will not find it. You will not find anything behind the thoughts that appear that say, I. Right. I want this. I'm afraid of this. And so when I bring people into this clarity and then the limiting beliefs and stuff come up, I'll be like, okay, so where is the eye right now that's afraid? Can you find it? It's just an empty thought. There's nothing actually behind it. It's just a program. Right. And it's entangled with the nervous system because we just assume that that's what is happening. So it creates this whole. The thoughts and feelings, they create this experience. For this empty space of consciousness to have to play as a character, to pretend that it's this limited character in this world. Right. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's, you know, you could say a stage of our evolution. But for those who want to see clearly what's beyond that and touch the timeless, the timeless is always here. [00:26:12] Speaker A: Amen. Yeah. Now, would you say that is the integration of insight, is touching the timeless and then bringing that into the play, no pun intended, but, you know, being able to play with the stuff of your life, of the character, to have a sense of tenderness with it, lightness, innocence, as you said, that wasn't really seen before, wasn't really accessible. It was always accessible. But now you see things differently. So there is a different essence in how one conducts themselves in this play of Leela. [00:26:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. The integration. It really happens on its own. Because that's a question I get a lot too. Like, immediately, once the clarity is seen and the space behind the identity is recognized, it's almost like clockwork. The mind will come in and say, how do I keep this? Right? But who's the eye that wants to keep it? Who's the I that wants to integrate it? Because that's just another kind of obstacle or illusion that there's someone here that needs to find something that's already here. It's when the dropping away of the belief in the I is. Is like it goes on. What's left by default is just this natural peace, this natural beingness that's always here. So I try to keep it light with the integration because I don't want to just give people a whole bunch of new practices. But I do understand, you know, sometimes it's. It's hard for people to just. What do you mean? I just get out of the way? Like, what do you mean? I just do nothing? You know, inquiring minds want to know. So I'll say, yeah, we'll notice. When your mind's going into the past or the future, that's a sure sign that you're back in story. And there's nothing wrong with that. But you can opt out now. Now that you see that a lot of that is just happening in your imagination, you don't have to play in that realm anymore. You can. It doesn't change what you are. It doesn't make it different. There's nothing Good or bad about it, let the thoughts be there like there's nothing to resist. Any resistance would just be more thoughts. Right. It would just be another identity, like a spiritual ego, what we call forming to stop the thoughts. But it's more about just getting out of the way and allowing. So that's one of the pointings I share, is about noticing when the mind is looping in time. And of course, there's a place for functional thoughts as well. Like we're not trying to get rid of thoughts or make thoughts the bad guy, that they're evolutionary advantage, clearly. And then the other piece that I'll say is to just go into what's here without language, right? Go into this space that. Where there's no judgment, where there's no opinions, where there's no labels, where there's no self reference. Right. That's a translation. That's a layer on top of what is nothing wrong with it. But the map is not the territory. [00:29:34] Speaker A: There it is. Yeah. You know what I find so fascinating is the natural love and compassion that exudes from the sense of seeing. Because it's true. It's not just some fairy tale. When I'm around people that can see this way, there is this just warmth. It's this natural warmth. And that is very particular to me. And that's something that I always try to, I don't know, make a point of. Is that really what changes and what counts, if anything counts in this whole thing is that for some reason we become more loving. And I don't want to sound too corny and cliche, but that's just how I feel like once you do kind of stop the games, the mind games, the ego games, there is this natural compassion, effortless compassion that comes out of the. It just comes out of the moment. Right? Yeah. That's priceless. And again, you don't want to get sucked into that either and try to be fake loving. I think it's just. That's just how it is, man. That's just how it be. Like our natural state is love. And it's way greater than the love that we. The meaning of love that we attribute to it. But that's just the best word that I can use at this point, you know? [00:31:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Amen. And I believe in the Bible it says. I'm not exactly sure how they say it, but it's something along the lines of like, there is no place for fear in love. But perfect love casts out fear. [00:31:25] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's a huge switch. That's the 180 switch. Perfect love. It's perfect love. Yeah. Now, that is something the mind cannot comprehend. [00:31:42] Speaker B: And like, what you shared about, like, when you're around people that are in this closet, clarity or this freshness, it's not intimidating. You know, like sometimes, I mean, especially I used to think, oh, wow, they're like, enlightened, like they're special or like you get scared or you think they're like, more important than you. But there's. Yeah, there's a lightness there. There's a welcoming. Exactly. [00:32:07] Speaker A: I think it's contagious as well. [00:32:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:09] Speaker A: That's the thing. [00:32:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:11] Speaker A: You get sucked into the embrace, something rubs off, or at least it potentially rubs off. And it's like a transmission. That's why I do this stuff. There's something very special about being able to sit down and tap in with people that know per se. And. Yeah. There's just something about being in the presence. You don't even have to say much. You know, sometimes it's just like a look into somebody's eyes and smiling and that warmth will rub off beyond words really is. [00:32:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh. [00:32:48] Speaker A: I had a talk with Lama Dawe a few days ago, and he said something on this point of. Most of us only have a vocabulary of 20 to 40,000 words. That's not really a lot. Right. And that is the foundation for most people's reality is words. Right. So you're living in a reality of 20 to 40, 000 different ways to explain yourself in the world. You know how shallow that is. What is the truth? Yeah. And, yeah. Just putting it that way, it's just like, whoa, words in concept and narrative. It constricts. It constricts the miracle so much. It constricts the. The love so much. And it's kind of a travesty. That's why I feel the need to come on here and do this stuff. Because there is. It's almost like a spell or a curse. Yeah. That we've been dealt with since birth. You know, Let me ask you on that note. Do you feel in this, like, in this, you know, serendipitous nature or maybe rephrase that. Why do you feel the need or not need or just why do you feel like coming on here and spreading the good word and talking to people, sitting down with people and showing the way? Because you don't have to. You could just go off and live your. Live your merry life and do whatever you want, but there's something that's pulling you toward doing this. Right. So what is that? Could you explain that for us? [00:34:28] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's really coming from a place of just joy and excitement and enthusiasm. You know, I would. I wouldn't choose to do anything else right now. And that's how, you know, life has moved me. And it's like, there's no personal responsibility either for, like, I'm doing this. Like, this is my thing. It's like. It's like this is just where I've ended up, you know, in the sense of, you know, a leaf falls off a tree and it gets blown around and that it ends up in a river and goes down the river and ends up on the shore. And the leaf says, I did that. Right. This is the kind of illusion that we all live in when we think it's me, right? It's my status, my reputation. But there's just a natural response to the environment. And that's really what liberation is. Because we think, you know, liberation, like, whoa, liberation. But it's only ever in the moment. It's just. It really is just the ability to respond naturally in the moment. Right? And there's an intelligence in that response. And some people have this idea like, oh, I'm just, you know, if there's. If I see that there's no one here, I'm just going to be a zombie. And I have to let go completely of control. It's like, not like that. It's not like that. There's no more constrains around you because there's no you that is wanting anything. We find the desires within us, right? We find the impulses and the intentions within us. I didn't choose to be interested in spirituality, right? I didn't choose to be born in Canada. It just. It's just what I found inside. And so there. But there's no more voice anymore that's fighting with those natural impulses that want to come out. And so right now, it's appearing as me using words to guide people to the space that's here beyond words and to share content and have interesting conversations with people about this topic. But, yeah, it's just kind of what's happening right now. [00:36:42] Speaker A: So truly, just because you enjoy it, it stems from this just going with the flow of joy. [00:36:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, it's so fun. Like, it's so, like, it's such an honor to share this with people. Like, I've been getting really busy lately and, you know, doing multiple, multiple calls every day. And, you know, it's so funny to see every character is different and every Character kind of takes to this in a different way. And especially people that have been seeking for, you know, 20, 30, 40 years. I had a guy the other day who had been seeking for 67 years clear it up. Yeah. It was like, you can't put a price on that. So this is. I wouldn't want to be doing anything other than what I'm doing now. Yeah. [00:37:33] Speaker A: That's beautiful. [00:37:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:36] Speaker B: And that's the gift in itself. Right. It's not about doing good karma. So I come back in my next life, and you know what I mean? It's like. No, the giving, that. The spreading the love is the reward in itself. [00:37:47] Speaker A: That's it. Yeah. Yep. Mm. Yeah. I don't have anything to say to that. It's very true, what you just said. Yeah. The giving is the reward in itself. [00:38:05] Speaker B: It is. It is. And especially when you're like. It's like. There is just this natural impulse that I've noticed grow stronger and stronger in me. [00:38:15] Speaker A: The. [00:38:15] Speaker B: The more that the character is not identified with that just wants to help, that just wants to give. Not because it's like, look at me or anything like that. It's just a natural. And it feels like this is part of our natural nature. Like this is actually what we are beyond all of the filters and the conditioning and the stories that society tells us, who we should be. [00:38:38] Speaker A: Yeah. But. [00:38:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Being interdependent and. Yeah. Giving. [00:38:45] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, once you lose yourself, obviously, you become selfless toward others that aren't really the others. [00:38:53] Speaker B: Well, yeah, and it makes sense. I mean, we see everywhere in nature, like a forest. Like, you know, if there's some kind of imbalance, there's other things that come in to correct that imbalance. Like. Like, there's not never just the trees or just the earthworms or just the birds. Like, they're all working together harmoniously to balance. But. And we think that we're different than that. We think that we're separate from that. So this is kind of just aligning back into that natural flow, and from that, there's just a urge to share. [00:39:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:23] Speaker B: And also to be comfortable with receiving as well. I know a lot of people have problems with that. You know, they think they just need to give, give, give, so just. But opening up to just the natural balance. [00:39:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:36] Speaker B: It's very beautiful. [00:39:38] Speaker A: Yeah. It does seem like nature, once you tap into your true nature, it's a lot like nature itself. Yeah. And it's really the basis of, I would say, cooperation, seeing that we're all in this Together. The opposite of solipsism. I don't know what you would call that. Just, you know, the collective mindset, which I'm pretty sure we've all heard. But it's true. It's just natural in that essence is seeing. There's no separation between me and you. So it's like, how can I not give or at least try? Right. If you have the gift endowed, which it seems like you do, Trina, it's like, how can I not? Why not? And as you said, it's not even like asking that question. It's just like this natural fragrance that comes from you, from your being. And I sense that from a lot of people as well. You know, they say in the east, that's the bodhichitta or bodhisattva ideal. Yeah, it's. It's just like. It's just getting out of your own world, really. It's like you think the universe revolves around you now. It revolves around us, and it's simply just that. [00:40:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And as you said, that's our being. Like, who we are is. Is we. Actually, that's a better way to say it. Who we are is we. It's not just I. It's seeing that we are this organism. It's like. Gary isn't just the organism. Trina isn't just the organism. We are connected in ways that we can't really see right now. Maybe we can feel psychically in some way, but we're connected on this very deeper level. And that's what we're coming back to. I think that's what we're simply seeing is this connection that we always have been and we always will be. But what matters is we are now. And, yeah, we just go with that dance. We dance that dance. [00:41:45] Speaker B: Yeah. And there's a home right here where we are already, where we've always been. You know, this is kind of like they say, waking up from the dream that you've always been home. You just pretended that there was a home to find. Right. We're all here in this celebration of life, you know, experiencing this miracle from different perspectives. And. Yeah, the diversity, the. The mosaic, the tapestry of life that's just so interconnected is like. It's just such a miracle. It's just such a gift to be part of. And, like, this is the gift right here. You know, it's not like, okay, now I'm enlightened, and now I have this thing, and now that's just it. And now that's the end. It's like, no, it's actually about your. It doesn't stop. Like you're here to live. Like you're here to be yourself. Like, I mean, you still have to like clean. You still have to call your mom if you want. Like there's still things, human things you have to do, but in the most simplest form, you're just here to be. Right? You're just. We're mammals with a hundred year lifespan, surviving on a rock, having an experience like that right now in this space of infinity, there's really not much more to it. And from that all of these beliefs form and all of these identities and stories and businesses and social constructs, but we created all of that. And that's okay because that's what we're in. We're just in creation. Creating on top of more creation on top of more creation. And it never ends. Right. And so getting in touch with the freshness, with the directness that's here right now puts you in touch. It's like in the. You're kind of in the front lines of creation because you are creation. And there's just. There is this kind of like this. It's like a spring, like a fresh clear spring that's just kind of bubbling up and wants to have new experiences. Because it can. Because why not? [00:43:56] Speaker A: Why not? Yeah, it's just experience for experience sake. It's like art, you know? Yeah. Art for art's sake. Yeah. [00:44:08] Speaker B: There doesn't need to be a purpose to art. Yeah, there can be. We could make one. [00:44:14] Speaker A: Yeah, but it doesn't have to be. [00:44:16] Speaker B: No, no. [00:44:17] Speaker A: Most artists just do. I mean, obviously there are some people that get paid for it, but for the most part, art just springs forth from our being. So. Yeah. Life becomes artistic. [00:44:26] Speaker B: It does. Yeah. [00:44:29] Speaker A: I like all you said celebration too. Because think about when you throw a party or you go to a party. It's usually just cuz. Just like, we're just going to the party, man. Have a good time. [00:44:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:40] Speaker A: I mean sometimes there are four reasons, like New Year's or Christmas, whatever. But sometimes you just go to a party. I mean, really, that's what it comes down to. We're just, we're just going, man. [00:44:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:49] Speaker A: So yeah, we're in the party, man. It is. [00:44:51] Speaker B: And the party, it's right here. It's nowhere else but here. Only here. It's not in some future when you get enlightened or when you heal all your trauma. [00:45:02] Speaker A: Yeah, you're at the party right now. [00:45:03] Speaker B: You're at the party right now. Exactly. [00:45:06] Speaker A: Seriously? Yeah. I like how you said, too. What is it? The. The front lines of creation. That's good. That one's gonna stick with me. I might have to use that in a future episode. Yeah. [00:45:16] Speaker B: That was good, wasn't it? Yeah. [00:45:23] Speaker A: Yeah. That's what springs forth, too, right? Is this inclination to create. Because that's, I think, also what we are. At a deeper level. We are. We are the creator or co. Creator of this whole dream. We are the lucid dreamer. And there is this, like, essence to just. Just make it as you go. I don't know how else to explain it. It's not like, as you spoke on before, it's not like complacency. It's not just sitting on the couch and eating Doritos. It could be. That's cool. It could be. Might be for some people, but it's. I see a trend of people on this wavelength of wanting to create in their own way, wanting to be the artist of their life, you know, just like volition and power. That comes from one's expression. Natural expression. Yeah. And that is also priceless, you know? Yeah. [00:46:09] Speaker B: It's improv. [00:46:11] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. It's all an improv. Yep. We're all making it up as we go. We are. That's the secret. All of us, whether you realize it or not, we're all making it up as we go. That's funny. No matter how important someone may seem or claim to be or how much money somebody has or how hot somebody is, they're making it up, too. We're all in this lunacy, you know? We're all in this play. This improv play. [00:46:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, yeah. It's an honor to be able to play my part with you today, Trina. [00:46:54] Speaker B: Yeah, likewise. Likewise. Thanks for having me on for sure. [00:46:59] Speaker A: It's funny because we're, like, literally putting on a show right now, but, I mean, you know, take out the. The idea of the camera and the microphone. It's always a show, even when you're not recording. That's the thing. [00:47:08] Speaker B: It is. [00:47:09] Speaker A: It's a show for. I mean, who, Yourself? I guess we could say no one. [00:47:14] Speaker B: For no one. [00:47:18] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. Well, the show goes on, Trina. [00:47:25] Speaker B: It does. [00:47:26] Speaker A: Thank you for joining me. Do you have anything you want to say, though, before we wrap this thing up? But I think that's a perfect note to wrap up, at least. [00:47:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Just that, like, what you're looking for is already here on your spiritual journey. Right. Your home is here, yourself is here. It doesn't require you to Be a certain way. It doesn't require to. For you to adapt your personality in order to, you know, be more spiritual. That will. That adaptation and those spiritual qualities will naturally unfold as the illusion of the thought identification is seen through. Right. I think a lot of times we think, okay, well, I need to, like, be a good person and I need to quiet my mind and I need to be a quantumist. Right. And I need to tithe. And. And that's beautiful. There's nothing wrong with that. But it's kind of like a reverse engineer because once you actually get to the core root of what the original delusion is, which is the belief in the thoughts, the stories that the thoughts tell you about this character that you take yourself to be, once that's seen through, all of the rest kind of begins to unravel. And that can be clearly pointed out just through a questioning process and. Yeah. A devotion to the truth. So it's already here. It's already this. You know, you can kind of enjoy the relief of that. [00:49:05] Speaker A: The sweet nectar of that. [00:49:08] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:49:10] Speaker A: Weight lifted off of one's shoulders. [00:49:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. There's a weightless quality to it because there's no longer this belief. Levity. Yeah. That I need to do it. That I am responsible for it. [00:49:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:26] Speaker B: Right. There's only what is. [00:49:29] Speaker A: There's only what is. Thank you, Trina. [00:49:33] Speaker B: You're welcome. Thank you, Gary. [00:49:35] Speaker A: Awesome conversation. Keep up the good work. [00:49:37] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:49:37] Speaker A: Wish you all the best. [00:49:38] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:49:39] Speaker A: Peace and love, everybody. Bye.