Tantra, Nonduality & Liberation with Yogini Meenakshi

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Mina, thank you for joining me today. [00:00:03] Speaker B: Thanks for having me. [00:00:05] Speaker A: For sure. So, yeah, getting this thing started, would you be able to give us a little bit about who you are and what you do? [00:00:13] Speaker B: Exactly, yeah. So my name is Mina. So I, I practice something called Sri Vidya Tantra, which is a. It's a branch of Tantra where they worship the Goddess in the form of Lalita. And I'll talk a little bit more about her later. But y. My practice is very oriented towards how do we attain liberation from suffering, the cycle of birth and death through worship of the Goddess. I also come from a background in Advaita Vedanta, so I received formal instruction in Advaita Vedanta for years before I fully committed to Srividya Tantra. And before that I had a general interest in Indian philosophy. I was exploring, exploring that when I was in college. And I was raised Hindu, I'm Indian. So it's just this path has been with me my whole life. [00:01:08] Speaker A: Amazing. So you said the goal of Sri Vidya Tantra is to reduce suffering. You know, get out of Samsara. We could say Now I think that's the goal of all, most of Eastern philosophy. Right? [00:01:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:31] Speaker A: What makes Sri Vidya different in that regard? [00:01:35] Speaker B: Great question. Because, yeah, I say that because that's sort of like the general description for Eastern spiritual practices in general. Right. Like get out of Samsara, see suffering. But the thing about tantra is that historically it's, you know, much more recent than some of these other practices. So it's almost like a more evolved version of those practices where if you can imagine, like, let's say you as an individual, you're like, let me end suffering. I'm just not going to pay attention to the illusion anymore. You figure out that that's not going to work for you. That's not exactly a way to live. So Tantra is more of the acknowledgement that there's no freedom until you're totally okay with being in the illusion. And my old Advaita Vedanta guru, who had like a much more all encompassing, like, understanding of Advaita Vedanta, he used to say, liberation is for the one who is totally okay with being in Samsara for all of eternity. So I would say that Sri Vidya Tantra is more about like this fiery sort of pursuit of liberation, but through Maya. Through Maya. Like seeing. So another thing my guru used to say, he used to say, you must see the divine in and through the world. And that is tantra in general. Right. So for Me personally, I was exposed to Advaita Vedanta in my early 20s and I was very much like, all of this is an illusion, I must detach. Etc, Etc. But our, our vasanas, our samskaras are so strong, we discover that it doesn't really work that way. [00:03:29] Speaker A: So moksha or liberation is found by embracing the illusion rather than running away from it. [00:03:38] Speaker B: Sort of. Sort of. This is where we want to be really careful because, Gary, like, I'm not sure, like, what's your level of familiarity with tantra? So you can like jump in at any point. But tantra is obviously very popular in the Western world. I've traveled a lot in places with spiritual communities like Bali, Portugal, Mexico, Costa Rica. And I see all sorts of tantra workshops where people are talking about how to have better sex or how to have better relationships. And that's what happens when, you know, tantra comes to the uninitiated mind where it's like, oh, so I can have better sex. Like, life is going to feel better if I do this. But that's not what embracing the illusion means. It doesn't mean you, like, dive headfirst into indulgence. For me, it has meant, actually if I reorient my relationship to the world, then I can begin the process of seeing the world as Brahman. So for me, it's actually involved things like total sobriety. So for me, no alcohol, no substances, nothing. For me also, like, no, I'm celibate, no relationships. So that's kind of like the opposite of what like people assume tantra might mean. But those practices, I feel, are important because then I sever the old relationship, the egoic relationship to those things. So that if I ever re. Engage, probably not with substance in the future, never again, but if I re engage with the world, it is with the understanding that all of it is divine. So there is like a purifying process that happens if I was going to get really specific, is an energetic practice. So it totally like physically changes your body and your mind so that you can approach the world differently. [00:05:48] Speaker A: I see. Yeah. So it's not that in that embrace we become a ravenous hedonist. Yeah, the relationship is different. Right. And you're saying is we start off that path of tantra by maybe becoming a little bit taking the aesthetic approach, like kind of stepping back from the things that you thought would bring you enjoyment, stepping back from the world a little bit. And then thus, once you reorient your energy in that way, you can approach it more maturely and Integrate the world in a way that isn't harmful. [00:06:26] Speaker B: Yeah, beautifully said. Yeah, that's exactly it. And I'll add one more step. People don't talk about this a lot, but again, my old Advaita guru used to talk about this. At that point, I was. I think my. My spiritual mind was not mature enough to integrate what he said. But Sri Vidya Tantara really helped me with this. You. You reorient your relationship to enjoyment itself. So if we go after these things, if we go after the things that we think will make us happy, it's because there is an erroneous assumption that, you know, just put really simply, like the. The cliche, the spiritual cliche, that happiness is outside of us. Right. But what my guru used to teach was happiness is with God. The thing that you are always searching for is God. Pleasure is an experience you have when you realize, like your own divinity, but it is projected onto the various material objects of this world. So when you sort of take this ascetic approach, it's not just like denying yourself. You know, that's where people. That's where things go wrong for people, actually. Because as human beings, we have a right to joy and love. The real joy in love is with God. So once we reorient that relationship, then we can start approaching the objects of the world as like just divinity. Shakti. [00:08:01] Speaker A: Now let me ask you this one. I feel like this may be hard to answer, but this is a good route to go down. How does one know when they are ready to embrace the world again? Say we do take the monk, like, ascetic approach. Meditate in the cave under the Bodhi tree. You know, we reach some sort of enlightenment, awakening. How do you gauge when you can become not celibate again? When you can maybe have a drink, you know, maybe indulge a little bit in a healthy way? Like, how would you know? [00:08:33] Speaker B: So I'm still learning about this, but I can give. I can give an answer that my. My yogini friend shared with me recently. She's also a tantric sadhga. And she said that her sadhana totally burned away her nerv. She's like, I no longer have a nervous system. It's not really true. She's in a human body. She has a nervous system. But what she really means is that there's no reaction to anything. Nothing is going to shake her. So the two things that Tantra is really trying to root out is when we see an object, we feel either fear, fear for our life, or we feel the Anxiety of, oh, my God, this is going to feel so good. And I think even, like, from a psychology, like, nervous system point of view, they do say that regardless of it's a positive or negative experience, your nervous system is kind of experiencing the same thing. Right. Have you heard this before? I don't know if I'm misstating it or. [00:09:40] Speaker A: I don't know what you're getting at, to be honest. [00:09:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, that's fine. I'll explain. So I've learned through therapy that if you are afraid of something or if you are very excited by something, your body doesn't know the difference. It still has that, like, jolt, like, that nervous system jolt. And it has, like. It's almost like people actually use this imagery a lot for, like, a very heightened romantic experience where you see, like, the object of your desire, the person of your desire, and it's like, almost like a flow, fight or flight response in your body. So that is what Tantra is trying to root out, like, you having this, like, reaction to anything. So. And that creates, like, this deeper connection with God because you're like, there's no fear of loss, and there's no fear that, like, anything can ever have power over you. So you are just. It's an unmediated experience of pleasure. [00:10:43] Speaker A: An unmediated experience of pleasure. [00:10:45] Speaker B: I took that from my guru, not my words. Those are his words. [00:10:50] Speaker A: So in a practical sense, it's like we regulate our nervous system to become equanimous in a way. And then thus, yeah, we find peace despite the comings and goings of the world. Is that the essence of it? [00:11:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. But you still feel blissful. Bliss doesn't mean to have, like. It doesn't have to mean, like, excitement, you know, Bliss is like, I'm at home. I'm at peace with. With God. [00:11:20] Speaker A: Yeah. So bliss and peace are synonymous. [00:11:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Peace is such an interesting word. It's not okay from my experience with Shakti, though, because, like, she's, like, the fierce, ferocious aspect of God. Peace doesn't mean, like, oh, like, you know, I'm blissed out. It doesn't mean that. It can mean, like, where you enjoy her. Her ferocious aspect when she's, like, in your face and she's, like, destroying everything. And that is peace too. Right. So more of, like, a perpetual acceptance of things. Like, you see beauty in all things. [00:12:02] Speaker A: That's the tough part. [00:12:03] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. [00:12:06] Speaker A: But that's the work. And that's how I do see the mindset of the masters. It's this very Very aquanous state of mind that it's like you can't get them. [00:12:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, like, we, as practitioners, we're always trying to hold ourselves to that standard. You can't, you can't like, claim anything you don't have yet, though. If, like, you're not at peace with the world, you're not at peace with the world. I accepted, like, it's, it's going to take me some time to, like, continue to root these tendencies out and I'll. I'll get there when I get there. [00:12:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That's the thing too, is balancing the empowerment of the path and also accepting a little bit of humility. Right. [00:12:51] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it's. [00:12:52] Speaker A: That's tough. That's a tough line to toe, for sure. I feel that. But there's no other way. You have to be humble. You can't be fake. Holy. [00:13:02] Speaker B: No. You know, that's the worst because then you hurt yourself and you hurt others. [00:13:06] Speaker A: Yeah. All right. So what is the work, would you say? What are the modalities or practices of Sri Vidya Tantra? [00:13:17] Speaker B: Good question. So, so much of it is about. I'm going to explain what's happening underneath and then I'll talk about the practices. Underneath all these practices is this reorientation of the shakti in your body towards God. So normally this shakti is like pouring out, like through, you know, the mouth, the eyes, like, basically wherever we're having a sensory experience of the world. So shakti is experiencing the world through us. And that is how we develop, like certain tastes, certain aversions, certain attachments, etc. We are reversing this flow, basically. So instead of shakti pouring out into the world, instead of your attention pouring out into the world, instead, you are redirecting the flow of attention to God instead of. And if you want to take the Raja Yoga view of this, Sri Vidya is actually working with Kundalini Shakti. Right. So this is like, talked about very frequently in yoga studios and tantra workshops, etc. Etc. Very, very misunderstood subject, but this is when I talk about the flow of shakti, I'm talking about the flow of shakti up the Sushumna nadi, up upwards towards Shiva. That is the, that is the goal of Sri Vidya, to be able to essentially step out of the way so that you can allow this flow to happen without any obstruction. So how are we doing that? Typically, when you are initiated into Sri Vidya, they initiate you with certain mantras and you make a practice of chanting These mantras on a daily basis. So you're familiar with mantra practice, right? And what it does. Yeah, you're like tuning into a particular frequency through the repeated chanting. And these mantras actually they make a home in your body. So again I talked about like how your, the structure of your body is actually going to change. That's what happens with these mantras. So that like you are relating to the world differently and you realize your own divinity. So you do like a practice of chanting these mantras every day. I personally use like a japa mala. I can show you. This isn't the one I use on a daily basis but I keep this for travel. Actually this is my japa mala. So it has like Rudraksha and then crystal and then here is a pendant. I'll just hold it up to the camera. So on this side is the goddess Kamakshi and this is Kanchi periyava. So for anyone who's watching who's familiar with the Kamakshi temple in Kanchipuram, I got, I got this mala from there. So I'm from the state of Tamil Nadu in India and there is a city called Kanchipuram which is very famous for its temples. And Kanchipuram Kamakshi, the goddess who's situated there, she is a very important goddess in Srividya Tantra. She is the goddess Lalita. So yeah, I use that mala. I also do puja on a daily basis. So I worship the goddess Lalita who is central to Sri Vidya and basically chanting these mantras which on the surface are in worship of her. But really what they're doing is like you're tuning into her so that you are essentially absorbed into her. And that, that sets the basis for how I like orient myself to the world. It's an hour long practice and I've had to do it for a very long time. I've been doing the chanting stuff for, for years, huh? [00:17:31] Speaker A: Lifetimes. [00:17:32] Speaker B: Oh maybe. Yes, maybe. But in this life, in this life for several years for sure. And it's something you have to be patient with. It doesn't happen overnight. It takes time to burn up karma and to gain insight. But if you stick to it, you, you will definitely see the fruits. [00:17:53] Speaker A: Oh for sure. Yeah. The proof is in the pudding. That's what I always say. [00:17:57] Speaker B: Yes. [00:17:59] Speaker A: And it doesn't come overnight. Rome wasn't built in a day. [00:18:02] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:18:04] Speaker A: I mean really, I've only been on the path for probably in this lifetime, six or seven years. And I have drastically changed in those six or seven years. I'm not perfect, that's for sure. But if I compare my tendencies, how I communicate with people, my habits, my whole lifestyle to six and seven years ago to now, it's. I'm a completely different person. [00:18:32] Speaker B: Yeah, same here. [00:18:34] Speaker A: Yeah. So I mean, imagine, you know, 50 years or people that have been on the path, you know, their whole entire life. What that does, I can't imagine, like, where I'll be at 80 if I make it that long. I can't even imagine. But I think more of the story is dedication. You have to really dedicated to this thing and freeing oneself. It's not like a. It's not like one foot in, one foot out. That's not going to work. Even though the ego may try and tempt one. Right. You could probably attest to that. [00:19:08] Speaker B: I can, yeah. [00:19:11] Speaker A: Working with the temptation, that's the tough part. Especially in the west, we have endless temptation and maybe we can go down this route. Like, once you get the glimpse into the path and know that it's real, it's not just like fairy tales. It's not just a look Cool. Right. It's not just a donna. New Sanskrit name. Look like a Jedi or something. Like, once you know that it's real and it's also realistic, there's no going back. Right. Once you swallow the red pill, you don't go back into the matrix. [00:19:40] Speaker B: No. [00:19:41] Speaker A: You don't go back in the same way, at least. So how did you get that glimpse? You know, was there, like a point for you? I know you said you were born into it, so I don't know, you might have a different situation, but was there a point for you that you said, I'm going to take this seriously and dedicate my life to it? [00:19:57] Speaker B: That's a good question. Was there a point for me. [00:20:04] Speaker A: I. [00:20:04] Speaker B: Mean, it's so interesting because being on the spiritual path is almost like being in a marriage where you recommit to it over and over again. So I could. I could talk about several points, but. [00:20:18] Speaker A: The first relationship, right? [00:20:20] Speaker B: Oh, totally, totally. It's like being married. You're married to God. [00:20:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:27] Speaker B: That's actually the image I love to use in Sri Vidya because it's. It's also like. There's so much imagery of like, ecstatic love and marriage. Exactly. And that's what my book is about, Shiva and Shakti. And I'm using the image of the marriage. I'll talk a little bit about that later. But yeah, so my first point, we're talking about marriage. My first point was when I was 18 and I went through my very first breakup. And it was just really painful and confusing. And I saw this film, a Tamil film called Naan Kadaval, which means Aham Brahmasmi. Do you know this phrase? It's one of the Mahavakyas, like one of the great statements of Vedanta. It means I am God, I am Brahman. So translated into my language in Tamil, we would say non karaval. So this film was very tantric and it made me ask so many questions. But the question that, like, the primary question that it brought up for me was, you know, can you actually get up and leave your life and dedicate to the spiritual life? What does that mean? And the main character in this film actually does this in a very dramatic, drastic way where he gives up everything. You know, he's really like on the fringes of society. The way like you might see some of these tantrics or sadhus in India. And I felt very drawn to that. I was like, I want to do that. Like that, that feels like the way. And over time, like that path revealed itself to me. But again, what I learned with my old guru is that you really don't have to make this dramatic, like, exit from Samsara. Internally, you renounce the world, but you're still in the world. And that's. It's a safe path to do it that way because we're getting a little off topic. But I know that in India, like when a sadhu, like when you take these vows, you do a little funeral for yourself, right? Like leaving behind the old identity. And that means that there's like, grief, grief for the old self. Now if you like, just do this internal renunciation and you engage with the world. You can, you can let the grief settle a little more like, you know, in a more like stabilized way where you're like, for me, you know, you know, what I experience is a daily pre grieving of knowing that like, I will not be in this world anymore when this, this life is over and that these bonds are like, these things are like, small compared to like the bliss of God. So anyway, off topic, but that was, that was what did it for me. And I've had different moments of like, inner communion with the divine. And I'm not going to go into detail about these and I'll tell you why after. But there have been like, moments that I felt, like visions, even moments of samadhi, like the, the annihilation of the self, so that you, you understand without a doubt that you are brahman. So those moments have happened. The reason I don't want to talk about them so much, like, on a podcast, is because people get very attached to these things, and everyone's experience of that is going to be so different. So I wouldn't want my, like, visions of the deity or samadhi to inform, like, the expectations of another person watching this, and I would want them to have their own experience. [00:24:23] Speaker A: Totally. [00:24:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:24] Speaker A: I feel that. Yeah. Save time anyway. [00:24:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. I think moral of the story on that is you got to give something up. Something's got to go. And it's the old story. It's the old narrative, who you thought you were. And, yeah, it may seem tough, for sure. Like, we're giving up something. I mean, something's gonna die. Ego death. Right. That's the turn that we all know. [00:24:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:53] Speaker A: But it's worth it. 100%. It's worth it because it's the difference between living a lie or living in truth. Really? [00:25:00] Speaker B: Yep. It's exactly that. It's like, it's the. The gravity of truth is always pulling at you. And, you know, what you said, I thought that so many times that once you swallow the red pill, you can't go back there. I've had many moments where I'm just like, I don't know what I've wandered into, but I. I cannot go back to the way it was. Yeah, yeah. [00:25:22] Speaker A: It's always pulling. I think it's pulling at everybody, to be honest with you. [00:25:27] Speaker B: Yeah. In a way, it's like we're all like. Even the most ignorant person is always on the path. It's just. They don't know it. They don't know how to, like, orient to it. So much of this work is just orienting with the. The gravity of, like, the pull of liberation. [00:25:46] Speaker A: Yeah. See, I respect you for not sharing your individual story, because we all have our own dharma. We all have our own karma here, so it's good to not take anyone else's individual story too seriously. But I'd also think there is. There is something we can all relate to in some way. Yeah, right. It's called the path with a capital T and a capital P for a reason. And I think it has to do with. We already mentioned it kind of. But giving up, just giving up some way. And I think the world is what leads us there. It's like us saying there's got to be another way. And I've heard from a lot of people, it comes through a breakup, and I don't think it necessarily comes from a breakup with a person, like a literal relationship. I think it's a relationship with something in our life that we have to give up. Something that we thought was, like, stable, like something that we thought was a foundation for who we. Who we are, how we think the world is, all of a sudden just comes crumbling down. I think that's something that we can all relate to in some way that gets us on the path. Yeah. I mean, would you agree. Disagree with that? Would you attest to that? Do you think in all. In all we can relate to getting on the path in some way is like breaking up with something in our life? There's some sort of thing that we got to let go of. [00:27:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Thousand percent. Like. Yes. Yes. I mean, I write a lot about a health issue that I had in my book, and, you know, again, I don't want to go too into detail about it because I've received so much unsolicited advice from people over the years about this health issue. But the. The path hijacked my digestion. I could not eat food like other people for many, many years. And that. That's. That's very Kundalini. And my. My friend who I was talking to about it, she put it so well. She obviously could not fully empathize because she didn't have that problem. But she's like, I can't imagine the. The psychological anguish. And that's how it felt for me. It was like, psychological anguish of not being able to eat. And I used to half joke, half lament to people close to me and be like, I. I don't know if I was, like, a billionaire in a past life, and I purposefully starved people for, like, my own sick pleasure because it was horrible watching people around me eat while I could not enjoy anything. So that was one. I think that was, like, the big, like, forced renunciation that I experienced. The other one I can talk about which might be more relatable for people is I. I used to have a job that I loved and growing up Indian in the United States. You know, I'm part of a culture where there. There's so much expectation that you be, like, successful. It's something technical. And I lost that job last. That pushed me pretty deep into a dark night of the soul, along with, like, my health issues and just feeling like I was like my life had just gone totally static. And again, it's like. It's so interesting because, Gary, I'm sure you've experienced this where you're like, it could be so much worse. You know, like, we have such first world problems, but the anguish that we feel is still so deep. And it's like. It's almost not even about what's happening, because job loss is job loss. You know, it's again, it's. It's very samsara, very maya. Very different from, like, being in a war zone. Right. But it's almost like the. The war zone is not about attachments. That's about, like, life or death, like, losing the people you love. Like, that's. That's a whole other nightmare in which you cannot do sadhana, but something like job loss, where you've really built up in your mind this cultural construct of I must be successful. You know, I must meet this, like, image that people have of me that will. That will push you into just enough torment that you're, like, forced to let go these attachments. Right. Does that make sense, what I'm saying? [00:30:40] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. [00:30:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:41] Speaker A: Yeah. And these attachments, really, when it comes down to it, construct a version of who we think we are. [00:30:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:49] Speaker A: And in the west, we all think we're our job. [00:30:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:52] Speaker A: Right. So when that comes crumbling down, then it's like, okay, well, what am I then? [00:30:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:59] Speaker A: So then you either go get another job real quick or you get on the spiritual path. [00:31:03] Speaker B: That didn't happen for me, though. I didn't go back to work quickly. I only went back to work recently. [00:31:09] Speaker A: Well, probably better off. You knew this is a better option. [00:31:15] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:31:16] Speaker A: But if it's a job, if it's a relationship with a person, like I said before, if it's just something that you like in your life, and then all of a sudden it's just gone like that. You're left with just this void of, oh, okay, I thought that's how it was. Now what? There's always that now. What with the Western mind, with materialism, it's always like, okay, well, if I'm not this, then I might be this. And just constant striving for. For identification with things, really, that's all it is. And I guess God has a way of reaching us or having us reach a point of exhaustion one way or another, until we get the message. Right. I think that's really it. It just comes down to, like, oh, you haven't got the message yet. We'll send them another break here. We'll send them a thing here that they thought they were, that they love so much. And then it just keeps going. It just keeps going. Samsara just keeps Going until you get the message, until you want to turn the wheel of Dharma. [00:32:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:22] Speaker A: And then, as we said, there's no going back. [00:32:25] Speaker B: There isn't. [00:32:26] Speaker A: Yeah. That's what I think we can all relate on. So we all have our own unique path here. You know, Buddha's got his, Mina's got hers, Gary's got his. But there is that point of just, oh, there's got to be another way. [00:32:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Can I say one thing about that? Like you. You mentioned, you know, we've all got our different paths. That's also how Maya is projected. That's how it's created. Because there are different projections through the eyes of Mina, through the eyes of Gary, etc. So the deconstruction of that Maya is going to look different for each person. That's why the path is so unique. [00:33:12] Speaker A: The deconstruction of Maya. I like that. Yeah. [00:33:17] Speaker B: That's what Tantra is. It's the deconstruction of Maya. [00:33:22] Speaker A: I like that. And then, thus would you say, we can start to enjoy Maya for the illusion that it is. You know, Shakti can dance. [00:33:34] Speaker B: I think you can, because it's like, think about it like this. Like, you. You are watching the illusion. You get to know the director of the illusion, and you're in close relationship with her, and then suddenly you realize that you are her at that point. Why would you not enjoy it? You're like, I have an in with the. With the being that created all of this. This is so fun. [00:33:58] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That is when the fun starts. [00:34:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's true power. [00:34:06] Speaker B: Exactly. True power. [00:34:08] Speaker A: Right. [00:34:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:12] Speaker A: Now, how would you say our life does change, like, once we are endowed with this sense of power? Well, maybe you can only speak for yourself. How has your life changed on a, like, a pragmatic level? Like, how does it look different now than it did, say, before you were on the path? [00:34:31] Speaker B: I make different choices. Maybe the old me might have been like, let me just go try this thing, and maybe it'll be different. Maybe I won't suffer as much this time. But this time, like, around when that shows up, when whatever it is shows up, the attachment shows up, I catch myself faster. It's almost like you. You. It's almost like you experience yourself being parent and child, where you are the parent and you're the child, and you're like, no, you're not going to go down that road because you know that that's going to hurt. [00:35:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:05] Speaker B: The happiness is not there. [00:35:08] Speaker A: So with that power comes discernment. [00:35:10] Speaker B: Yes. Discernment. [00:35:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, I feel that 100%. [00:35:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:15] Speaker A: And I feel it intuitively. Right. Do you feel like your intuition is strengthened? [00:35:20] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. Yeah. I haven't talked about this, but lots of people on the spiritual path find that their spiritual gifts open up. That is. That's absolutely a thing that happens. Yes. Intuition, because you're plugged in with the creator. [00:35:34] Speaker A: Plugged in. [00:35:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:36] Speaker A: Linked up 100%. Yeah. You do get these cities, right. You get the special powers, for sure. I feel that I can read people just. Just like that. Like I know what's up. Just like that. Just by having a quick conversation with them, just even seeing them, you know, the aura. [00:35:56] Speaker B: Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. That's a gift. There's less noise because that's our natural state. So there's less, like, material noise so that you can, like, see those things. [00:36:07] Speaker A: Mm. Sift through the noise. The distortion. [00:36:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. The distortion gets quieter so you can actually see what's going on. [00:36:18] Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. And we live such a unique life, such a unique incarnation. Right. To have all this knowledge at our fingertips. [00:36:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:28] Speaker A: To actually do the practices, to be on the path, the same path that the sages were on thousands of years ago. To be on that path, living in America or the Western world or India, wherever, for that matter, the modern world. It's very unique to be in the world and not of it in that way. It's interesting, to say the least. [00:36:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:51] Speaker A: All right. [00:36:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:53] Speaker A: I think it's like this lifetime is the one to reap the karma. We could say, this is the one. This is the one. Maybe I'm a little biased because I'm living it right now, but if you compare it to lifetimes, lifetimes ago, when life was just, I guess, simpler, maybe we could say we didn't have this kind of technology. It didn't seem like you could do as much work, per se. Right. There wasn't. There wasn't as much opportunity to be able to reap one's karma. Right. To be able to follow the dharma, essentially. So I like to say to people that, like, don't waste your time here. There is a sense of. Sense of urgency that comes with this insight to me, I really can't waste it here. [00:37:40] Speaker B: I love that. [00:37:41] Speaker A: And you know what's funny is you can waste it. The mind would be like, yeah, but, hey, man, you got. You know, you're only 32. You got time. Why don't you go and, you know, smoke a joint? Why don't you go and hang out with this person maybe you shouldn't hang out with or just, you know, distract yourself, essentially. That's what the mind will always say in the Western world. And that's what we battle, it seems. It's like, that's the battle of kurok satra is the battle between distraction in that sense of urgency. [00:38:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, that. That is like the old, you know, I don't know if it's not specifically tantric, but I feel like the. The sages of the old days, they would say, like, take the opportunity now you have this human life, like, work out your liberation now. [00:38:30] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the thing. It's. It was always now. It was always urgent. [00:38:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:35] Speaker A: But now. But now. But now, really urgent. Now it's like, come on, man, this is it. Because the Internet is so powerful. Like, just the simple fact that we can have this conversation and go back and forth on these topics, and then people tune in in the future and maybe learn something that they never learned before. It's a miracle. It's really mind blowing to me. And we take it for granted, but to me, this is. I hold it in such reverence. This is truly just wow to me that we can do this. You know, it's kind of magic. It is. [00:39:09] Speaker B: It is. [00:39:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:10] Speaker B: This is. This is a blessing for me that even though it's Kali Yuga, things are crazy. Like, we live in a crazy time. But, you know, I was born in India and I live here and, you know, have grown up here. And it's just like through this spiritual work, I get to meet people from so many different backgrounds. I get to see, like, the unique. Like, how unique it is when a person who is not Indian, wasn't raised Hindu, is just drawn to these practices, probably because of past life. Samskara, or they're just drawn for whatever reason. And we can all commune and talk about this stuff. And it doesn't have to be Hinduism. A lot of people are drawn to Sufism, Christian mysticism, whatever floats your boat. Again, deconstruction of Maya is different for everybody. But this is a miracle that we get to do this. And part of the miracle is that the world is so bananas that we have to ask these questions. Right? [00:40:16] Speaker A: Yep. You know Terence McKenna. [00:40:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:40:20] Speaker A: He said, eventually the world's gonna get so weird where people are gonna have to start asking questions. Yeah, that's where we're at. It's just so weird. [00:40:27] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:40:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I'm gonna be real with you and say, I think part of the miracle of us being in the west and living in these times is having access to the knowledge of the East. Because there's something about the Eastern philosophy, whether it's Taoism, Yoga, Tantra, Buddhism, all of that, all in that sphere over there that is. I'm just gonna be 100, honest, I think, very superior to Western theology. And it comes down to the practices. It comes down to how detailed the practices are in the text, like how much we have that is prescribed to us. You could say when Western theology, in terms of Christianity or any of the Abrahamic religions are really just a story, it's a good story. Has a lot of meaning, for sure, for one's life. I love Christianity, but it's like you're only getting a quarter of the mandala of God with Christianity, and it's. If you know how to read it in the right way, you know the whole Bible or the Quran. So what I'm getting at here is the fact that we have the Upanishads, we have the sutras, we have the Gita for free. You can look it up right now. Within seconds is like, wow, better use. This lifetime. It's wild. It's very, very wild. And it's extremely sanctified. This lifetime is extremely sanctified that we can do this. But I believe. This is just me riffing here. Sorry, I'm kind of rambling. I believe, Mina, that we did have previous lifetimes where we resonated with this. Or maybe I lived in India, maybe I lived somewhere in the East. And we knew how. We knew how important English was going to be to the world. It's the. It's the language that we all connect on. [00:42:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:19] Speaker A: So we're on, like, a special forces operation mission behind enemy lines right now to spread the dharma of the east to the people of the world through English. Now, I know that sounds a little out there and outlandish. [00:42:30] Speaker B: No, no, it's Dharma. It's that you're. You're talking about Dharma. Yeah, Dharma as in duty. [00:42:37] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I mean, you don't even have to get into the mysticism of past lives and esoteric things of that nature. You can just say, in this life, I resonate with it. I think it's so important for one's peace, happiness, and liberation. I feel it's my dharma or duty to provide commentary to the things that have helped me so much. And you probably feel the same, right? [00:42:59] Speaker B: Definitely. I want to comment on a couple of things. It's going to be a little lengthy. [00:43:03] Speaker A: I know. I Said a lot there. [00:43:04] Speaker B: No, no, no. I want to talk about all of it because it's so cool. I'm wondering if you're okay if we go a little over an hour, Would that be okay? Okay, cool. [00:43:12] Speaker A: I'm in no rush. [00:43:13] Speaker B: Same, I got like two hours. Okay. So about the past lives thing, I didn't talk about it a whole lot until you brought it up. But it's mostly because I, I was taught and I, I do think this is important that we should focus on like what's happening here because the whole past life stuff, like there, there are like explanations for why we have certain samskaras or why we feel certain things in this life. But the point is like we burn it up now as you were saying, like the, the importance is in now. But the past life stuff is important to me and my practice. I, maybe you have this experience. I do remember certain elements of my past lives and how they like thread into this one. Like the Goddess worship thing has been around for a long time. I remember also practicing other faiths, lifetimes and lifetimes ago before I came to like Indian Eastern traditions. Again like all very personal. But I'm just putting it out there so that we know that yes, it's a part of the path, like remembering our soul story. So that's one thing. And about the Eastern religions and the Abrahamic religions, it's really interesting because that thread of non duality seems to have existed at the root of even Abrahamic religions. Like when I hear, for example, I believe in Islam, they say, you know, no, no image of God. Right. They don't, they don't show an image of God. If you understand that correctly. Take, take out like the, the, the desert dogma context. Yeah, take that out. Take that out. [00:45:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:07] Speaker B: Even though like the Quran should be read with that context, it's very non dual. You know, Brahman, Brahman has no image, it's consciousness. So my hypothesis, and this is not like a general like all, you know, one size fits all hypothesis, but if you think about like what is now India, if you think about where I'm from, modern day Tamil Nadu, it's tropical, super lush. People's needs were met, they had food, they had a very organized society. People were generally doing quite well. They had time for contemplation and practice. If you give these ideas to a mind that is like somewhat satiated and is like well fed and, and has like, you know, enjoyed like the bliss of like domestic life or wealth or etc, whatever, it's gonna open up a little More to these ideas, if you give it to a mind that is. You know, we know a little bit about the Middle Ages in Europe, Medieval Europe. Like, things were different. If you give it to that mind, it's gonna interpret it totally differently. The same teaching. I don't fully understand the history of the Middle east or Europe. I know some things generally, but this is my hypothesis about what happened, because mystics have existed all over the world. It's just that the east really made a home for them and they weren't viewed as crazy. And then also, we had the gift of the Himalayas. Like, a lot of tantra actually flowed from the Himalayas. So it went south, then it went east. And I don't know what the explanation is. They say that Kailash is like the crown chakra of the earth. I. I'm not sure, but there's something there for sure. [00:47:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So the east seemed to just preserve it very well. [00:47:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Although some things have changed with colonization, and India has been impacted by many, many things over the years. So it's. It's not black and white. [00:47:28] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I like to say the truth is one and the wise call by many names. Or God is one and the wise call by many names. [00:47:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:35] Speaker A: And if you know how to look at really, any religious text that has survived throughout the years, you'll be able to see that one truth. Like, I got into yoga and Eastern philosophy, first of all, just honestly, through like, doing yoga classes. And then I was like, well, what is yoga really about? You know, got into the actual knowledge of yoga, and then from there, just recently dove more into the Western philosophy. Read the Bible and the Quran, and it makes so much more sense. [00:48:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of people in the west have had this experience where they're. They say, understanding, like Indian religion helped me understand, like, the religion I was raised with better. [00:48:21] Speaker A: Yeah. 100. [00:48:22] Speaker B: Not to say that institutional religion doesn't have its mistakes. It has many, many mistakes, even in India, you know. [00:48:31] Speaker A: Yeah, that's for sure. Well, the beauty of the path is that. How do I put this? It's all up to you. [00:48:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:48:42] Speaker A: Right. No one can take that away from you. But we want somebody to do it for us. That's a big downfall. That's what we're conditioned into, is we're looking for a savior, Whether it's Jesus or God you call guru. We're looking for somebody to do it for us and to save us, to say the right thing or to give us the daran or whatever it is. We want somebody to save us, but it's not that easy. It's like definitely revere the teachers, revere the people and sages of the past, but when it comes down to it, it's all up to you. So it's a double edged sword. The path, we could say treading the path is. The good news is it's all up to you. But the bad news also is all up to you. Depends how you look at it. [00:49:22] Speaker B: My friend talks about radical responsibility. You absolutely need radical responsibility on this path. [00:49:28] Speaker A: Yeah. And again, that's what this, that's the seeds that Eastern philosophy sows, I believe. [00:49:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:39] Speaker A: Accountability, that the Bible doesn't really, it kind of does. You know, we got the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount, you got some rules, but it doesn't give you the practices. It doesn't really give you the four noble Truths in that way. You know, it doesn't give you the yamas, the niyamas, it doesn't give you the, it just doesn't. There's not really that much framework. We'll say so. Yeah. But if you do combine it. All right. I think the place of the sage in the 21st century or 22nd century going forward, the place of the sage is to create your own religion, honestly. And not for that reason. It's not like because I want to be deified. It's because, I mean, that's the only way. It's like you have to create in your own karma, in your own circumstance and situation in life, create your own rhythms, create your own rituals, your own ceremonies that all of these, all of these sages of the past kind of did themselves right. So I think that's the place for all of us, is we all become our own Buddha. [00:50:41] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah, I really love that. I really love that. I think that's true because for me. [00:50:46] Speaker A: At least I can only speak to myself honestly. [00:50:49] Speaker B: I understand. Yeah, yeah, I get what you mean. No, but I, I think there's a lot of truth in that because one thing I think frequently about is how the Tantric path is just different in the modern day. Like, I used to do this thing where I would picture like, what would a spiritual woman, what would a Yogini have done a thousand years ago? Because somehow like I associated like Indian religion and philosophy with being suited for like a different time period. But I, and, and like many people, many spiritual people, I was like, I, I was born in the wrong time period. This is weird. I don't belong here. But then I, I realized like no, there. There's. I'm going to find the right way to apply this stuff today because this time needs guidance, you know, and that's part of the game, that's part of the fun, is learning how to navigate like new. A new Maya. [00:51:51] Speaker A: Right, Maya. Well, I mean, to answer your question, a thousand years ago, you'd have to be very careful, especially in Europe, certain parts of the world. [00:52:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:01] Speaker A: You might be burnt at the stake. [00:52:02] Speaker B: Oh, exactly. I think about that a lot. Especially if you're a woman. And that did happen to women. They were called witches. [00:52:10] Speaker A: Yep. Salem, Massachusetts, man. Right near me. [00:52:13] Speaker B: Yeah. I have to visit Salem, actually. [00:52:17] Speaker A: Yeah. I've actually, surprisingly never been. I think it's because it's so close. It's one of those things that's like, I'll get to it. Yeah. [00:52:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:23] Speaker A: But, yeah, I mean, it doesn't really matter where. The times that we're in again are momentous because we can speak about this stuff and we don't have to worry about our life. Right. [00:52:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:33] Speaker A: We would have been killed, I think, for talking like this. I mean, ask Jesus. [00:52:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:39] Speaker A: And many other martyrs of the past. [00:52:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Now the Internet is just flooded with so much noise. We're confident that only the right people will, you know, come to this podcast. Right. [00:52:52] Speaker A: Yeah. That's the thing. It's about quality, not quantity. [00:52:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:55] Speaker A: Like, I know that this isn't going to get a million views or maybe a little. Who knows? Maybe this will be the one. [00:53:00] Speaker B: Maybe. [00:53:01] Speaker A: But. But I don't think so. And I don't even do it for that reason anyway. I do it. I don't actually know why I'm doing it. I'm kind of just going with the flow, some sort of intuitive flow. But it helps me at the end of the day, like, having these conversations help me in ways that I'm still figuring out, like I said. And it helps other people, too, you know, and it's not about helping the whole world, billions of people. It's about having that select few that it helps, that aids in that remembrance. And I think. Right. That's something that we can relate on in terms of our dharma or duty, is like, you're not going to save the world, but you can definitely save a few people. And I don't know if save is the right word. Maybe you can help a few people. [00:53:46] Speaker B: Illuminate something for them. [00:53:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Even if it's just one person. [00:53:54] Speaker B: You know, I asked my guru once, I was like, does everyone get enlightened in the end? And he was like, that kind of question. It just doesn't matter once you get there. [00:54:11] Speaker A: Yeah. There is, though, this pull toward that, that duty or that aspiration, at least to be the bodhisattva, the bodhicitta, because you realize that you are in everyone. You are of everyone. So it's like you can't help but try at least, even though you know it's kind of futile, but it's like I might as well try while I'm here to do my part. [00:54:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Actually, this is another part of the path that we could probably talk about is you will be drawn to this. Like, drawn to liberating yourself if the world gets so loud that you're like, I can't, I can't take this anymore. It's. It's too painful here. And part of what makes it painful is watching other people suffer. And I'm. I'm guessing this is true for you too. But I'm a very empathic person. Like, you know, just since I was a child, like seeing someone else in pain, even if it was over something small, like watching someone else get bullied in school, like the, the, the secondhand pain I would feel from that was just like a lot. And you're like, it's just so loud here. There's got to be a way out. [00:55:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:55:34] Speaker A: I would say that's even harder to deal with. Seeing others suffer. [00:55:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:39] Speaker A: Because, I mean, it's like I can handle my own suffering with this certain insight, the certain realization. [00:55:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:48] Speaker A: When you see others and. Yeah. I don't know, because I see it just personally in my life, I see people suffering and it hurts you. That's the thing. That's a tough pill to swallow, that coming along with the red pill that you swallow. You also have to. And this is really, this is really heavy. But once you have a certain realization of Brahman, that everyone is Brahman now, you're God and so is everybody else. Well, you also in some way take on the suffering of everybody else. [00:56:16] Speaker B: Yeah, well, yes, yes, that's part of it. Because look, Samsara is going to go on without you. Right. You liberate yourself. Like, Samsara is still going to be here. But when you burn up certain tendencies, you have burned them up for other people. And on a more practical level, it shows up as you not choosing to participate in certain illusions. [00:56:43] Speaker A: Yeah. So we save ourselves to save the world. [00:56:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It's like a radical act of compassion to liberate yourself first. [00:56:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And again, that is the good news is it's all up to us. No one can do it for you. [00:57:02] Speaker B: Yep. [00:57:03] Speaker A: And the greatest thing you can do is work on yourself. [00:57:06] Speaker B: Yeah. But the divine will teach you. The divine will show you how you're not alone in it. [00:57:11] Speaker A: Yeah. That's another miracle too. Right? Is really more than just an idea, actually. Internalizing and externalizing that God is real, essentially. I think this is really. That's what it comes down to in living with God by your side. That. That's it, man. [00:57:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:33] Speaker A: To know that you have this helper, this force that is guiding you along always. From when you open your eyes and wake up in the morning to when you go to sleep, to maybe also in your dreams, you know, always that. Yeah. That. You know, that's sitting with that and really taking that in. Like feeling that in your body at an energetic level. That's what it's all about, man. That means everything. [00:58:00] Speaker B: Because God is you. God is me. It's the me. It is the substratum of everything. So why would God not be present to guide us in this journey? [00:58:14] Speaker A: It's so obvious, Right. When you put it that way. And we're talking about it now. But the popular paradigm of the world is like, well, where's God? That's how I used to be an atheist. Right. So my first thing would be like, dude, I don't see God. Don't you see the world that we're in? How could there be a God? But this is something. There's a switch that flips in one's head. [00:58:33] Speaker B: Yes. [00:58:34] Speaker A: I don't know how, I don't know where, but there's a switch that flips where it's like, it goes from where is God to here's God everywhere. [00:58:44] Speaker B: You know what's wild? Is that Shakti? Yeah, that's Shakti. So I talk about this in my book. So the point about God, God is everywhere. God is the most present thing. Like, God is so there that we forgot. God is there. Right. [00:59:03] Speaker A: Hidden in plain sight. [00:59:04] Speaker B: Yeah, it's in plain sight. But there is something you. You talked about the flip switch. Like the. The switch flipping in your head. That's Shakti. Where it takes on this illusion of, like, you thinking, like, no, there's this whole world here. Like, where's God? That's you. That's the Maya. That's how Shakti creates Maya. [00:59:26] Speaker A: That's the transmutation right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:59:30] Speaker B: So that's. We just have to, like, flip that switch back. But of course, that's hard because you're. Let's. It's hard and not hard at the same time. Look, liberation truly happens in an instant. Right. There's no time involved in it. It's like it is. And then like the Maya is. And then you see past it in a moment. But it's just that there's this illusion of like, you have to work through your samskaras, your attachments, and you live this whole life, but all of that, like, it collapses into illusion. That's again, that's like a. A very, like, deep, level understanding of it that isn't going to help anyone get awake. Yeah, but that. [01:00:15] Speaker A: I'm following you. [01:00:16] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:00:19] Speaker A: It's like we have to work through the illusion to be able to see that it wasn't even an illusion in the first place. [01:00:25] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [01:00:28] Speaker A: Some sort of joke. [01:00:29] Speaker B: It's a joke. It's a great cosmic joke. And that's what's so beautiful about it. There's nothing scary here. There's no fear, there's no grief. But we experience that as part of the play. [01:00:43] Speaker A: Yeah. That's a powerful point. Right. Is that no matter what, nothing can harm you. Really what you are. [01:00:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:53] Speaker A: That's the wavelength again that I see these sages on. Especially again. Jesus. I love Jesus. Shout out Jesus. He said nothing can harm me. Go ahead, nail me up on the cross. That's cool. [01:01:01] Speaker B: I love that story so much. [01:01:04] Speaker A: Right? [01:01:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. That story always does something to me. I wasn't raised Christian. My parents put me in Catholic preschool when I was a kid, so I don't know if maybe I absorbed. They were mean to me, though. Yeah. It wasn't like a pleasant place to be, but maybe like, being in proximity to that. I absorbed something as a child. Could be past life, I don't know. But I love, love that story and I love learning about Christ. I don't know too much in detail, but. [01:01:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:34] Speaker A: I think that's the archetype. Sorry, you're gonna say something. [01:01:37] Speaker B: I was, but you go first. [01:01:39] Speaker A: I think Jesus laid the foundation or framework of an archetype for all of us on the spiritual path. If you know how to look at it. It's all of us making that sacrifice and bearing the cross. [01:01:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:52] Speaker A: All in our own way. So that's probably why you resonate with it. Because I think it's meant to be. All of us are meant to resonate with it. [01:02:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because I travel a lot and I been to, like, several cathedrals and churches in Europe and I would go not only to see the architecture and the history. But I'd go for the juice. Like, you walk into those spaces, and there's Shakti. [01:02:23] Speaker A: Ah, yeah. The juice. [01:02:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I tell European people, like, modern day European people. I'm like, I love going to churches, in cathedrals, and they look at me like I'm crazy, because they're like, do. Do you understand what institutional Christianity did to Europe? And it's like, yes, I do. I get it. But still, there's, like, spirituality and devotion has been the same everywhere. It's just been overlaid, like, with other nonsense. So there was something else I wanted to say. Oh, yeah. I talked about the fear and the grief, and, like, there's no fear or grief. You here. The special thing about Shakti and, like, worshiping the goddess is that you could say something like that as a spiritual practitioner, but, like, you're still going to experience it because that's her design, and you have to surrender to that, too. You just have to know, like. Like, the freedom part of it is knowing that, like, even if you are experiencing those feelings, it's part of, like, the. It's like the flavor of Maya at that moment. And it's like, it's gonna pass. It's fine. But for the ignorant mind, it thinks it's permanent. [01:03:36] Speaker A: Yeah. That's the big difference. [01:03:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:40] Speaker A: And that's really freedom, when it comes down to it. [01:03:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:45] Speaker A: Is like, in the midst of your suffering, how do you deal with it? [01:03:50] Speaker B: You feel it. [01:03:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And you just let it pass. [01:03:55] Speaker B: I feel it. [01:03:56] Speaker A: Mm. Rather than, like, building some kind of some sort of energetic blockage from your suffering or your trauma. [01:04:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:10] Speaker A: You just kind of let it flow through you, man. [01:04:12] Speaker B: Yeah. You have to watch it, like, be with it. [01:04:16] Speaker A: Mm. And see that it's not gonna harm you. [01:04:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:04:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Truly, nothing can harm you again. I'll say. It's easier said than done. For sure, I'm not perfect, but I do believe that is. That is the path is to be able to sit with our suffering, transmutate one suffering, and be responsible in that manner as well. So, like, if we suffer, we don't let it affect us or the people around us, Right. [01:04:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:47] Speaker A: It's like a maturation process. A purification. A maturation process. Process. [01:04:51] Speaker B: Yeah. But, you know, like, speaking from my personal experience, like, it's never that easy. You don't. You don't get to this place where your loved ones look at you and they're like, wow, you're so peaceful. Like, what did you figure out that we haven't figured out? It's you don't get there right away. Like, you're going to be a little crazy for a while. Right. Have you experienced this? [01:05:15] Speaker A: Oh, 100%. [01:05:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:16] Speaker A: You just have to be okay with being the crazy one. [01:05:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:05:20] Speaker A: That's part of the sacrifice is like you don't care what the tribe thinks. It's like, you know that you're following this path and this lifestyle for a purpose that's greater than what people think of you. [01:05:33] Speaker B: Yeah. And also part of like, feeling like you're crazy is knowing that you're. You're uprooting so many impressions from lifetimes and lifetimes and not just like lifetimes of stuff like your ancestral impressions, because you're burning up stuff from your mother, your father, all your ancestors. So there's that layer and then the layer of just like society, culture, like the context that you live in. You're burning up all of that. And it's gonna hurt for a while. So you just have to get okay with the fact that the pain becomes very attractive, cute for some time. And I think they call that a dark night of the soul. [01:06:14] Speaker A: Yeah. But it's worth it. I'll just say that it's very worth it, because one that doesn't know any better, that is listening. I mean, I imagine people know better that are listening. But just for the record, for one that doesn't know any better that's listening, they would say, well, what's the incentive? Like, why. That doesn't sound too fun. Why do I want to be looked at as crazy? Right. Why do I want to have to go through this pain and essentially suffer in some way? Or at least it looks like suffering. It sounds like suffering. I would just say it's worth it. On the other side of the dark night is the light. It's always darkest before the dawn. So, yeah, it's like, once you get through that messiness, there is a semblance of order. There's like an orderliness how sees the world and how one is essentially. [01:07:03] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I talked about dark nights of the soul. I've been through multiple. And each one is worse than the last. And if I'm being honest, I just emerged from one that lasted, I don't know, like two and a half years, I guess, almost three years. And it's weird because the Maya sorts sort of like starts reorganizing itself after the dark night is over. But this time, this time I'm like, I'm not gonna hold out that, like, that was the last dark night. Like, I know that as long as I'm on this path, like, grief, sorrow, pain, like, that comes with it. Especially if you're still in the Samsara. Like, you just. You go through these different cycles, and each cycle primes you more and more for the reality that you're gonna have to let go of the illusion. [01:08:03] Speaker A: Well said. That's good. It's all cycles. Creation, destruction. Creation, destruction. Creation, destruction. [01:08:09] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:08:10] Speaker A: It just keeps going. [01:08:11] Speaker B: And that's. That's also why, like, you don't even have to consider past lives because you see it happening in. In the current one. [01:08:20] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's cool to entertain. Definitely. I feel like it's real, but you don't even have to worry about it. [01:08:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:28] Speaker A: Yep. So, I mean, we started this whole conversation off on the point of your guru saying something along the lines of being okay with Samsara in some way. I wish I could. I wish I could say it word for word, but it was like being okay with the illusion. [01:08:48] Speaker B: So the. The one who is free to leave Samsara is the one who is okay with being in it for all of eternity. Yeah. [01:08:56] Speaker A: That's good. I don't know. That just popped up when we talked about the cycle of creation and destruction. Right. It's like you have to be okay with that cycle. That isn't really up to us. That's, you know, that's very primordial. That's Shiva and Shakti. So if you're okay with that cycle of. That's just how it is. That's just how it be. Yin and yang, then maybe you're enlightened. That might be the destination, per se. [01:09:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Union with God. [01:09:33] Speaker A: Yeah, that's union with God, right? [01:09:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:37] Speaker A: Well, yeah. That's good stuff, Mina. [01:09:41] Speaker B: I agree. I'm really loving this conversation. Yeah. You do bring something really special. And to these. I can feel it. [01:09:48] Speaker A: Thank you. I appreciate that. So do you. [01:09:52] Speaker B: Thanks. [01:09:55] Speaker A: All right. I mean, where do we go from here? We could wrap it up. Do you have anything that you want to say? Anything that you want to get off your chest? [01:10:04] Speaker B: No, I think that's it. We started talking about Sri Vidya tantra, but I think we got to like the meat of all these paths. Tantra or not. Yeah, I think we just went there. So I don't know that I have anything else to add. I. I think that I. I love how the conversation went towards. This is universal and it's just refracted differently through these different perspectives. But we're all doing the same thing in the end. And it's for a purpose, you know? [01:10:40] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, that is tantra, right? Yes, it is together. [01:10:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:47] Speaker A: So I see it at least is the weaving together of this universal truth, this golden thread of consciousness. Skyler said in my last conversation that I really like. It's like you're weaving together this golden thread that is present in. In all of us, in all belief systems. I feel as though that is the essence of tantra. [01:11:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep, yep. And it continually reforms to suit like a new context. [01:11:14] Speaker A: Yeah. That's the beauty of the truth, per se. It's ever novel. Right. That's the cool part. The cycle find ourselves in is. Never really gets old in that way. [01:11:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:28] Speaker A: That's the. That's the miracle of it. I feel it. [01:11:35] Speaker B: Me too. [01:11:36] Speaker A: Well, thank you for weaving with me today, Mina, and maybe building some novelty as well. I don't have anything else to say. I think we can start to wrap it up. [01:11:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for inviting me on. This was so great. I loved this so much. [01:11:54] Speaker A: For sure. [01:11:55] Speaker B: This is so cool what you're doing. Just thank you. [01:11:58] Speaker A: Thank you. It's only possible because people like you say yes. So thank you. I wish you all the best and. Yeah, thank you. Do you have anything you want to plug? You want to talk about your book at all like. Or any. [01:12:10] Speaker B: Anything you want to say as far as my book? Well, it's not published yet. It's not even finished. I'm working on the draft. But I do have a mailing list for the book if anyone is interested. I have a TikTok. Maybe you could post my TikTok. You could also post my link tree and there's a link to sign up for the mailing list there. Like I said, my book is about Shiva and Shakti and it's heavy on the metaphor of the marriage between Shiva and Shakti. So if you're interested in that learning about Kundalini Shakti, worship of the goddess Shiva, then probably find the book interesting. It's also heavily illustrated. I'm working with an illustrator, so. [01:12:53] Speaker A: That's cool. [01:12:53] Speaker B: It's meant to be like really like a work of art. [01:12:57] Speaker A: You want to drop a name or is that still under wraps? [01:13:01] Speaker B: Under wraps, but I'll announce it soon. [01:13:04] Speaker A: Okay. Okay, I respect that. Well, I'll sign up for the mail enlist. [01:13:08] Speaker B: Awesome. Thank you so much, Mina. [01:13:10] Speaker A: Thank you for joining me today. Wish you all the best. Give up the good work. [01:13:14] Speaker B: Thanks. [01:13:14] Speaker A: Peace and love, everybody.