Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: First of all, Satmindo, thank you for joining me today.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: Very lovely to be here today talking.
[00:00:07] Speaker A: To you for sure. Lovely to have you.
Well, yeah, getting this thing started. Would you be able to give us a little bit about who you are and what you do? Exactly.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: We have organization called Divine Marga International.
I'm founder together with Leon Pramananda.
And this year we celebrated 10 years anniversary of our Divine mark organization.
We did a series of events, one in Himalayas, in Nepal we had a beautiful event and then we did another one in Europe.
Yes. And Divine Marga is a divine path. Marga means path.
Our organization has branches, it's registered in United States and Europe.
We're originally from Malta, our home base in Nepal as well.
And essentially we for over 10, 15 years now as we are guiding students on this path. The divine path is a very deep path. It goes beyond traditional non duality.
[00:01:47] Speaker A: Which.
[00:01:47] Speaker B: Is actually one of our eight petals. If you picture a flower with eight petals.
So self realization on dual path is one petal and we have seven more which provides a much more holistic, integrated approach.
Because over the years helping thousands of students open to higher levels of consciousness. We have noticed that some of them have issues, for example with their nervous system.
Some of them have they want to open consciousness, but they have personality issues which becomes a problem in their life.
And others are oriented towards more traditional yoga lineages, working with clearing karma, working with the soul.
And therefore Divine Marga encompasses many key aspects.
So these eight petals I can briefly mention to you and, and if you're interested in any particular one, then we can dive in.
So first one is self realization which is about coming to full consciousness, realizing the self, it's a non dual self.
The second one which is very important but usually completely overlooked, it's personality liberation.
Because as you open higher consciousness into higher spaces, higher light and then what happens to the personality?
You know, usually people want to run away from their personal issues, personal problems. And there are core fixations that can get in a way.
So that's a petal Number two, we use a specific very deep model called Enneagram, maybe you're familiar with that. And it allows to very clearly see those deeper patterns, core fixations, ego fixations along the higher levels of consciousness.
Then the nervous system is the third aspect.
And this is where when people do a lot of energy work, we do consciousness transmissions.
And sometimes the nervous system struggles and therefore the nervous system is, is the physical aspect, the new path of neurons and your brain, your spine and all of it.
And sometimes they Struggle a lot. So we do various meditations, nervous system integration practices to support that higher consciousness. Because you open up higher light, but how do you support it?
And that's where nervous system integration works, comes in.
Then we have aspect number four on this. Remember this beautiful flower, like a lotus flower with petals.
The fourth aspect is the divine light and sound stream. It is known as Shabt.
If you know one of the major world religions called Sikhism, they're the most popular one to use the shop. It's a very devotional path, it's a very God aligned path.
But many mystics such as Rumi, Kabir and many very high realized beings have all mentioned the soundless sound.
Even the Zen masters say what is the sound of one hand clapping?
So they all indicate that there is this soundless sound.
And in a usual spirituality which is very popular all around, everybody knows the mantra Om.
But this mantra is only one mantra as part of the divine light and sound stream, which simply signifies the sound of our universe.
The aum is the sound of our universe because universe means one uni verse, song, one song. There are other universes, they have other mantras, other sounds, not all at the same time.
Aspect number five or the petal of the flower, number five is the divine name and divine nectar.
And this is what gives that blissfulness, that nourishment in, in the Bible, in the ancient texts, even in the Egyptian mythology, there is known as a sustenance, divine sustenance called mana.
And that mana is, is the manifested sustenance, but on a deeper plane of the inner self. It is the divine nectar that gives the nourishment for the soul and for inner forms of consciousness.
Then we have a major, major part which is liberation of the soul and spirit from Karma. But this is a very big topic.
Maybe we can expand on this later on. Because karma has many layers, many levels.
It's like an onion, you know, you peel off one layer, there's another one and it goes deeper, deeper, deeper.
So it's a, it's a very interesting complex process.
And liberation of soul is, it gives much bigger freedom, liberation than only non dual self realization.
This is a big blind spot in the non dual communities and teachers.
And the last two aspects is the seva, which is selfless service.
It's a very beautiful one because it's about purification of the heart and aligning with the higher will, serving selflessly, Karma, yoga.
And the final part is the importance of living teacher, of a living teacher, the one who has walked the path, who has done the job and who can clearly see what's going on.
It's just like trying to become good at something without a teacher. And there's a lot of guesswork and you don't know if that really happened or what really happened.
Have I reached this stage? Maybe I have, but I'm not sure. And then two weeks later, oh, no, I haven't. So the living teacher does even more than that, of course. Protection, guidance, and giving clarity on the path what's actually going on.
So these are the eight petals of Divine Marg, of the Divine Path.
[00:10:02] Speaker A: It's beautiful.
Wow. Yeah, I feel as though you could last a lifetime on just one petal, you know, I think all of those go so deep, potentially.
[00:10:15] Speaker B: They do. All of them. They do. And this is where many yoga lineages merge.
Yeah, there's the. The Yoga of Sound is called Nada Yoga.
Karma Yoga is selfless service.
There is Bhakti Yoga of the heart.
There is Jnana Yoga. That's the actual name of non dual inquiry. It's the Nyana Yoga.
As we know, Ramana Maharashi was a Jnana Yogi.
So all of these actually have deeper roots.
They're just given maybe some modern Western names these days.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: Who is your teacher? I'm just curious.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: Over.
Over the years, there have been many beautiful teachers who assisted me along the way.
But it all started with a very rare opening.
There were events before that led to it, and this opening was very rare.
Having witnessed thousands and thousands of people how they awaken, having helped them to awaken, and having seen.
Traveled all around the world and so forth, I came to see that that awakening was very, very rare. Because in a. In a single moment, I got lifted out of body. And I witnessed my body transforming into light, into particles of light. Every atom was like infusing with light.
An hour later, when I came back into the body, everything was activated.
And right there, all of these abilities came forth.
Abilities to sense energies, to see true dimensions, telepathic abilities and, and many psychic abilities came right away.
And this is where on the inner planes, I met my teachers.
And that happened in New Zealand, by the way, when I was living there.
And there is a little story related to this, that when I went to an event, spiritual event in New Zealand, a person came to me and, and he said, wow, you have such a beautiful light energy around you. And he said, can I invite you for dinner? And I said, yes, why not? I. I just arrived, had this beautiful opening.
And when we met, he revealed that he is one of the Best known spiritual teachers in New Zealand.
And he introduced me to the circle of the teachers who have been long time teachers. They have their own groups of students and so on, written many books.
And this is how I re entered this awakening.
So what that says is that this I. I call it re enlightenment. Not something new, but something that came back.
Because then, as these teachers have told me, they were reading my past lives and as I was remembering them myself, it was already done before. There were many masters who helped me before.
And yes, over the other years to come, I also met some special people who helped in special ways along the path.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the mystery of enlightenment, of the path is it transcends this one lifetime.
[00:14:44] Speaker B: Oh, surely does.
Nothing happens by accident, even if it seems so.
[00:14:51] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
Divine accidents, serendipity. So much serendipity comes along the way.
[00:14:58] Speaker B: Yes, yeah.
[00:15:01] Speaker A: Now do you know what spurred that opening? Or was it just some grace out of nowhere?
[00:15:07] Speaker B: No, I. For, for many years there was deeper inner knowing and there were many things happening prior to that.
I prepared my physical body for this event to happen, you know, with proper diet and a lot of meditation. And I was already good at meditating and seeing visions and so forth. But when that awakening occurred, that was a major transformational event.
So that was a major, major shift.
So this is rare because many people have awakenings. The chakras open up and you know, inner light opens up.
This is more typical.
But there are stories of other spiritual teachers like Ramana Maharshi. When he was a teenage, he was deeply contemplating who is this I that I'm feeling referencing to?
And he had this huge awakening as a teenage, but he had no teachers to explain what happened to him. Nobody could understand.
And he just felt the inner calling to go to Arunachala. And he made his way there. And it took quite a while for others to recognize what he experienced.
In a similar way, Meher Baba, a great avatar. He's known as Avatar Meher Baba.
When he was a teenage, he received a transference of consciousness.
There is a story of a mystic yogi, mystic master Hazrat Babajan.
And she was sitting under the tree and he was passing by her day by day, felt attraction to talk to her.
And one day she touched him on his forehead, on his third eye.
And he was not only shocked, but he got blasted away in a really high consciousness that for six months he was really struggling to cope with it. It was a bit of a turbulent time, very unexpected.
And that's another example of a really huge awakening. That, that it may happen spontaneously or it may happen with certain trigger event.
Whichever way it happens then anyways, there is a process of integration and those students who work with a living teacher, they're supported in an integrated approach, which is more softer, which is more gentler.
In a way. Though I do have many students who come and they get blasted out, but in a sustainable manner because they can ask questions immediately, there is support available and exactly what they need.
So this is better because there is support, there is great care.
But if something like that happens out of nowhere, it can be very disturbing in a practical life.
And this is what we try to avoid and to support students in the most holistic, in the best way, exactly what they need.
[00:19:20] Speaker A: Yeah. On that note, I feel as though personally the most important petal that you mentioned is the teacher.
Do you think there is like for the 21st century Western man and woman, a I put this like a hierarchy in terms of your petals, some that are more important than others.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: Self realization path is the most appealing for Westerners because it has that mental component of contemplation inquiry.
This is more understandable for the Westerners.
There is a smaller percentage of Westerners who are more heart centered and as a bhakti, as a way of the heart.
And typically there is is a lot of unclarity what's going on because they follow some guru and they sing the songs and they have a good time, but they experience love. But then they don't know, you know, where they have progressed, what's going on. Have they actually made a good progress in five years or they're just circling around the same level of consciousness now there are of course many people who assume or even try to prove that there is no need for any teachers. They can do it all themselves.
And typically they face great challenges.
Sooner or later they bump into the walls and when they do come to a teacher, after exhausting everything that they can do themselves, when they do come to a teacher, they realize they barely scratched the surface and they spent 5, 10 years exhausting doing everything on YouTube and traveling here and there and there and all, all the tantra things and chakra things and speaking the truth and you know, sharing the truth and then that's called, you know, speaking one's truth.
It can be tricky thing because it can come from the spiritual ego because speaking my truth and not caring about anybody else.
Well, let's have some sanity and some just common sense that it does sound egoic.
[00:22:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: Yes. And unfortunately, many, many spiritual seekers end up in this place.
I've. I've seen that a great percentage of people who, you know, who go all around, you know, Bali and festivals and all of these places, events and all of it.
And after they, they reach that stage, they reach that max and then they stay in it. And after years of stagnation, but assuming that they're making a progress, they become. They really get absorbed into the spiritual ego. And that stinks.
[00:22:56] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a tricky one.
I also believe, and you mentioned it too, there is this dharmic transmission that comes from someone that is just simply further along the path. You could say someone a little bit wiser, someone that has the transmission themselves that goes beyond words, that really goes beyond practical knowledge. That is sometimes just as simple as touching somebody on the forehead.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: Exactly, Exactly.
One of the great masters was Neem Karoli Baba.
And we've been to his ashram in India.
We organized many retreats. You know, every year we organize many retreats around the world.
And we been in India so many places hosting satsang events.
And Neem Karoli Baba was one of those beautiful masters who would just say a word that is at the right time, just cuts through all of it, goes right into the heart and soul.
And of course, if one is familiar with Neem Karoli Baba, he was a guru of Ram Dass, the American spiritual teacher, very famous in the 60s, and Harvard professor who took LSD and has an interesting story to it.
But later on, Even many tech CEOs went to visit Neem Karoli Baba ashram because they could see that there is something very special there beyond words.
[00:24:55] Speaker A: And even beyond his body as well.
[00:24:58] Speaker B: Of course, body is just a shell. It's the clothes that the soul wears for a brief time.
[00:25:09] Speaker A: And his presence is even greater than it was in the 60s now.
[00:25:16] Speaker B: Yes, indeed, it's everywhere now. It has spread beautifully around.
Yeah.
[00:25:25] Speaker A: That's the mark of a true master, is their resonance reverberates through time. They are timeless.
[00:25:36] Speaker B: Yes. And to recognize a spiritual teacher, a great master, is not to look so much outside, but to try to feel within.
And if you have your inner sight open, try to see into the soul of that teacher deeper within. Try to see into the inner form of the teacher.
Because throughout the ages there are. There have been many famous people, you know, who appear to be big, but within there isn't much. They have a charming personality, great marketing team, and, you know, they, they can appear to be very big, but at the soul level there isn't much.
Yeah. And there are Those who, who can appear to be very simple, but yet they're so rich, so wealthy, there's so much divine grace flowing through that it's immeasurable by any worldly means.
[00:27:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a different kind of, it's a different kind of resonance.
It's a different kind of power. You could say that a true master has that a fake master doesn't have. It's not material power at all. Yes, power of God.
[00:27:23] Speaker B: Honestly, in a divine Marga, we recognize a certain structure of spiritual teachers.
So typically there are many spiritual teachers who have a realization and then they just teach about that, you know, oh, I've seen this and now I can help you see the same thing as well.
But there are those who advance a bit forward and they attain a mastery of a certain lineage or path.
For example, Jnana Yoga or Advaita lineage.
And at this level we call them the yoga preceptors, meaning they have mastered that particular path, whether it's Bhakti Yoga or non dual path yoga or any other known tradition or lineage.
But yoga preceptor has inner abilities at the level of Brahmanda or universal level, cosmic level.
I'm trying to keep it simple because I can go very technical in terminology, but I'm trying to keep it simple.
Then the. Then. So yoga preceptors are cosmic masters. They have mastered a certain, a lineage, a certain path, and they have power.
It is activated power.
And with that power they can assist others.
Now we define a real guru who has transcended the cosmic power of, of that lineage in, into a supra universal stage which is called Par Brahmanda.
And by definition that is a real guru because that being is beyond our universe and this universe.
From a Hindu tradition, it's the best actually example.
We know that our universe is created by Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva.
And they have these gods, these three gods, they have a mother and her name is Durga or Kali, the divine mother.
But what is not known so much generally in many spiritual circles or even among spiritual teachers, that there is a deeper God who is the father and a husband of Durga, who is the father of the Trimurti, Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva, and a husband of Durga or Kali, it's another form of her.
And his name is Kaal Niranjan or Lord Brahm.
Now that's where we go deep and it gets very interesting because this very few know, very few teachers know.
And this God, to reach this God you have to reach a non dual realization indeed, you have to come to non dual awareness. Yes, but that light of awareness or that universal source of consciousness is his consciousness, Lord Brahm, that infinite light, it can be blissful, yes, but it is his light.
And in a greater cosmological sense, the spiritual masters know that this God is not the real God, and therefore it is he who has created the universes of duality of which one of them is ours.
And the mantra of our universe is omn.
Now, very few masters know how to go beyond that God and the light of awareness, Non dual consciousness at that stage which is not ultimate and it's not the true freedom.
So those who make passway through that stage are the real gurus, and they are in the Paramanda universes.
They're in the light of par Brahmanda.
So by definition, these are the real gurus because they have went beyond that initial, non dual stage, initial universal consciousness. And they have seen that trick, how it's played on the souls who don't know this.
So. So very few make it to par Brahman than those who do and who become anointed or in other words, empowered.
They're the real gurus.
Now, I'm still speaking about the structure of the teachers, spiritual teachers.
There is another level of sat gurus. Not the one on YouTube. No, no, no, no, no, not the one on YouTube. Sadhguru.
He actually is a yoga preceptor.
That's where he is. That's where his soul is. That's where he draws his power from.
The real sad gurus are those who went one more step further from the Parabrahmanda into the true divine abode.
And in the true divine abode, there are further six stages that are known.
And Sadhgurus are those who make it to the true divine abode.
And there are further degrees along those further six stages on the path.
Now, this is not known, but yet it is because one of the major world religions, Sikhism, they have clear definition of this picture, but they have. Of course, it's a religion. There are many aspects to it.
There is a branch of that religion, more advanced branch, who said, okay, let's not get into religious stuff, but let's do things that work.
And how do we get the souls through this journey without getting entangled too much into religious stuff?
So that branch is known as Sant Matt and Santmad means the path of masters, of those who have went all the way and who have the power.
And this is a very important aspect in divine Marga.
We work with those masters. We have a direct lineage actually with these Masters.
And the other aspect, for example, Meher Baba.
Now I will explain the same thing now with the non dual aspect.
Okay, Meher Baba, if you would look into the divine cosmology that he has presented.
He also was very clear about this.
He also depicted the stages.
And he showed that at certain stage there is a self realization. Yes.
And then there is a next stage where gurus reside. And he even painted Ramana Maharashi in that bubble that there he is. And there are a few others, Ramakrishna and a few more who are real gurus, who are there in that bubble of self realization, knowing God at that level.
Beyond that level, there is a deeper degree of Sat gurus.
And he has, at that time when he was living, he identified five sad gurus.
At the time when he was alive.
[00:37:04] Speaker A: They were also living.
[00:37:06] Speaker B: Huh?
They were also living at that time? They were, yes.
One of these sad gurus was Hazrat Babajan who transferred the consciousness to him.
And the other one was his very famous Sai Bab of Shirdi, a very, very big figure in the Indian spirituality.
Well, he, Sai Babov shared is as famous in India as Jesus in the West.
Very famous being.
So these are the sad gurus and he identified and he draw exactly where are the gurus and sad gurus and the role that each of them plays, what power they have.
So we have a divine cosmology.
On divine Marga website, you can just click on soul menu and there is a divine cosmology and you will see all these explanations with the beautiful chart and you can dive into as many details as you wish.
[00:38:20] Speaker A: Yes.
Imagine it goes very deep.
[00:38:24] Speaker B: It does, it does.
[00:38:27] Speaker A: So what is the difference between the gurus and the satgurus? What is the definite difference? Is it as you said, seeing that trick, that last trick.
[00:38:40] Speaker B: Okay. The difference between gurus and Satgurus is that gurus abide in the abode of Par Brahmanda, which can look totally divine, which is full of bliss.
It's a great way more real light of consciousness. Way more powerful light of consciousness.
It's so much more than dry awareness.
Yeah, it's so much more than that. It's absolutely real. It's bursting with bliss and love and joy.
And gurus are empowered on that specific path that they represent. Some gurus can even work on multiple paths. This is a multiple mastery.
Sadhgurus went another step into the true divine abode, which is the absolute true God nature.
And that God nature is called Sat Purush.
Now this is known in the path of the masters There is also a few other very deep lineages that know this because they see the bigger picture from way, way above, we could say.
And the Sadhguru's, their soul is liberated.
The soul is liberated at that stage and they realize God at that stage.
So by definition, the soul is fully liberated when it reaches the true divine abode, which is called satyalok or sachkant.
And that's the whole difference between gurus who have a lot of liberation, a lot of liberation, they have God realization at that stage.
But there is a bit more to do to reach the true divine abode where the soul is fully liberated.
And without somebody seeing that clearly, of course one will not know what's going on because one will believe that their soul is already liberated on a much lower level.
So that's why a living teacher is necessary, because they have the power to assist the soul through these stages and they have the clarity to see what's actually going on at those very blissful planes of existence.
Because generally spiritual seekers experience the first glimpse of bliss and they think that's God.
It's just the first light bulb along the very long path.
[00:41:56] Speaker A: Now would you say the difference as well, correct me if I'm wrong, is that the gurus still have karma.
There's still, there is still an essence of suffering in some way.
[00:42:09] Speaker B: Karma is a very multi layered approach.
Karma also is not easy to be identified when it's subtle, when it's very deep.
Karma can be dormant even.
It can maybe not even come true in this life on a subtle level because there is a reservoir of karma. So a spiritual teacher may be in bliss and may live a good life, but it doesn't mean that their soul is liberated.
And this is very, very typical, especially for non dual teachers, because they speak of liberations and yet at the soul level, it's all ignored and checked in the, in the wardrobe and closed door.
So karma has many degrees according to these planes of existence.
There is Karma in the biophysical life.
There is karma in the subtle plane of existence called under universe.
There is karma at the cosmic level called Brahmanda. There is karma at a universal level that the soul deals with. There is Karma at the supra universal level, Parabrahmanda.
And only when you reach the divine, then the soul itself sheds the verb, very last bits of it.
[00:43:52] Speaker A: So all in all, the destination, if there is a destination, is to become one with God.
[00:44:00] Speaker B: That's the simplistic answer, yes.
[00:44:03] Speaker A: Putting it very simply, yeah, we're all working our way back to God.
[00:44:09] Speaker B: We do. And people think they do, but that's why a living teacher is needed. Because sometimes not all the roads lead to the very top of the mountain.
All the roads lead to the mountain.
But then they go around or away from the mountain, or they have fun at the town, at the hill, you know, foothills of the mountain.
But then there is less and less roads that lead further above into the mountain of God Realization.
[00:44:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:50] Speaker B: So I, I would, you know, I would give a little example of a really good spiritual masters, please. Yeah, so a really good spiritual masters are like the, the, you know, when, when you go to climb a mountain like Mount Everest in Nepal and there, there is a Westerner, you know, who, who booked a package to, to climb the mountain and then he is assisted by Nepali Sherpas, you know, the local guides who carry, you know, the backpacks and who can tell, oh, let's go this way because, and they check the weather, they know everything.
So the western mountain climber is the one who assumes that he achieves everything because he has climbed the mountain and he paid money for it to climb it.
But the actual master is that one who carries the backpack and tells you where to go and leads you to the very top of it.
[00:46:05] Speaker A: Yeah, there's no shortcuts.
Now how would you say we know who to trust in terms of teachers? Is there this resonance is the intuition that leads the way in that regard? Because there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of shysters out there. There's a lot of people that are charismatic, they're good looking, they're eloquent, that seem like they're masters and they kind of just want your money.
So how would you say we know who to trust in that regard?
[00:46:41] Speaker B: It's getting more and more difficult, to be honest.
[00:46:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:46:47] Speaker B: One aspect would be to, to see if they know these different stages of mastery and have they helped others to walk that path.
[00:47:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:47:07] Speaker B: Among those deeper stages there is a saying that a master appears when the student is ready.
But there is a lot of also mishaps possible because people generally have not that much of discernment, especially these days. It's getting more and more difficult as such.
[00:47:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:47:40] Speaker B: So one, one way would be one way I will give. One practice that any, anyone can do is if you are approaching or getting interested in a spiritual teacher, have his picture or, you know, check his face on YouTube or wherever, and then sleep on it and ask your inner self to give you a vision, a dream at the deeper level of the soul.
If this is the right teacher for you.
Don't expect that the answer will come immediately, the same night.
Give it a few weeks or a month every night to hold that picture.
Then of course, you will remember his or her face, sleep on it and ask your inner self, your higher self, your soul, or whatever you want to call it within you.
Ask yourself to give you a dream, a vision, if that is the right teacher for you.
And if you will get a dream that is a bit tricky and confusing, that is your answer.
Something will be tricky and confusing.
And if you get a dream that that's a really good. Go ahead, and you will have a really good sense, a really beautiful, loving feeling inside you, then that is a good teacher at this stage right now where you are.
But keep in mind that six months later, one year later, your needs may change.
You may already grow through that particular stage on your spiritual path.
And therefore, perhaps you need someone else who can guide you deeper.
The same thing that had worked for five years is not the same thing that will move you forward for the next years to come.
[00:49:58] Speaker A: Yeah. So remain fluid.
Yeah, that's very important.
Now, do you think ultimately, the outward teacher, the main goal of the outward teacher is to bring one into the inward teacher, the inner guru.
[00:50:16] Speaker B: What is the inner teacher?
What is the inner guru?
To whom are we talking inside?
Some people talk with ghosts.
Some people talk with spirits who have moved on, passed away.
Some people do get in touch with their higher self, but the higher self functions at a particular frequency within the great band of continuum of existence.
The higher self is one of the lower forms of wisdom, guidance and consciousness, which is part of you, but it's a form that is on a lower level.
So therefore, that inner teacher, which typically is the higher self, can serve you only as much.
Then if you do get in touch deeper within yourself, into your deeper forms of consciousness, typically it gets more and more silent.
And then that deeper inner silence guides you to the actual teacher who will reveal to you those mysteries of the silence.
[00:51:46] Speaker A: So it is virtuous to listen to the inner teacher, the higher self. What you're saying, don't stop there.
[00:51:52] Speaker B: Yes, of course it's important. It's very important to listen to your inner self.
And typically you can discern that it is your real inner self when you feel really good and true about it.
It's when the heart speaks silently and you know it's true, even if it doesn't make sense here.
Even if your life situation is completely not doable right now, according to what your deep self tells You.
But over time, your life situations will change and it will be revealed to you that what this deep self told you was true.
So it takes a lot of strength to follow through that.
And typically what I have seen with so many people is that at certain point the inner self will connect with those teachers who can guide you further.
Because when we deal with karma, dealing with your own karma is the trickiest thing.
It's like it's.
In a plain terms, it is easier to help somebody with their problems than to solve your own problems.
That's why we have many consultants, you know, who help to solve problems. But solving your own problems is the most difficult.
Yeah.
[00:53:45] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean is that the essence of the path is just getting out of our own way to see that we're the ones that created the problems maybe lifetimes ago.
And yeah, we have to untie those knots.
[00:53:59] Speaker B: Part of it. That's one part of it. But what we can see as a common theme throughout thousands of years, a common theme is that there are lineages and they pass on those lineages.
It is a common theme.
Internet is a new thing.
Just few decades, it exists now.
Before Internet there were books, but nobody awakens so much through the books there assistance, their tools, but not the, the complete way.
So the lineages are those that carry that power.
So you could see that it's a stream of power that goes through it.
[00:54:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:54:55] Speaker B: And if you just expect to become enlightened on Internet, of course you may connect with someone, you may have a spiritual experience, you may come to certain degree of awakening, but you will not go all the way, especially dealing with your own karma at the deep levels. It's a complete mystery what is at those deep levels.
And you even won't have access to it. You won't even know that it exists in the first place. And how can you deal with that, that you don't know that even it exists?
So one's own efforts are limited.
And through the power of the lineage, this is how the souls travel back home.
Yeah.
And the biggest lineage or power in the whole existence, and it's a huge existence of so many universes and planes of existence.
The biggest power is the divine stream, the divine light, sound stream.
And this is what the Sikhs call shab. And the Sufis have their name. And Jesus was also initiated in the river of Jordan, which is symbolic representation of the same thing, Baptism and Christianity, it's the same thing. You know, why do you put the head in the water? You know, and why do Hindus go and bathe in the holy rivers.
We see the same theme, that there is a river.
And we, and those who are deeper mystics, they know that that river is not a physical river.
It is the inner river. And that river is the divine light sound stream.
And that's how the souls go back home.
[00:57:00] Speaker A: Yes.
That's so powerful. This is something that I've always known, and you're just painting different pictures to me that it's always been in there, but it's just coming to light now in a different way. In terms of the river, I always say it's like a chain link.
Like it's a chain link of Dharma.
But the river is also a nice metaphor. You get swept away by this river, this flow that is somehow embedded in the Word. Right.
[00:57:32] Speaker B: Even the Bible says that there was the Word of God. And what is the word? It's a sound.
So basically, that sound has created the universe.
And that sound is vibration. Vibration is energy, energy is matter.
So that sound, the original Word is, has created everything.
And that sound goes beyond our universe into higher paramanda universes. And where is the wellspring of that sound, the original word of God?
This is where Meher Baba beautifully has brought into his teachings the Word of God.
And Meher Baba kept silent for 43 and a half years.
And he transmitted that silent Word of God through his transmission.
So it is the same divine light sounds trans stream, which is the word of God, which in at the lower level, it's called prana or chi, life force energy.
But that is already a low level manifestation of it that sustains all life.
And at a deeper level, it is the divine light sound stream, which is that which has created all existence and which sustains is through that stream that souls came into existence.
And they will go back home one day when the karma is cleared and God is realized.
[00:59:35] Speaker A: Very powerful.
Very, very powerful. Yes.
I mean, I think that's a good note to wrap this up at, but I want to be able to talk to you again. For sure. There's definitely a lot more we can tap into. Like, there's a part of me that says, wrap it up. That's a beautiful note to wrap it up at. But then there's another part of me that wants to sit down with you for a few more hours.
But I think that's a good note to wrap this up.
[01:00:00] Speaker B: We can pause here for today.
And yes, there is so much more into it.
It's so beautiful. And it just goes more and more beauty, more and more bliss, more and more love, unseen, unknown, and yet there is more and more and more.
And that's the most beautiful thing. That God's nature is more and yet more and more and more.
[01:00:32] Speaker A: Exponential beauty.
[01:00:34] Speaker B: Truly infinite.
[01:00:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
The never ending miracle.
[01:00:40] Speaker B: It is.
[01:00:44] Speaker A: Also what came to mind is interesting how the first level of enlightenment or awakening in Buddhism is stream entry.
Right there.
[01:00:52] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:00:53] Speaker A: Entering the stream.
[01:00:54] Speaker B: Entering the stream.
[01:00:57] Speaker A: I feel it. And once you enter it, once you dip your toe in, you don't go back.
[01:01:01] Speaker B: No.
[01:01:02] Speaker A: Once you taste the nectar, you don't go back.
[01:01:04] Speaker B: Once you taste the nectar, and that's one part of it, the divine nectar, nothing will ever match in the hole. In this world, nothing tastes the same.
[01:01:15] Speaker A: Mm.
Well, hey, Samando.
I thank you for joining me today. This was a wonderful conversation.
You're very wise and I honor having you on here, seriously.
[01:01:28] Speaker B: Thank you, dear. Gary.
Thank you, everyone. They're beautiful souls.
[01:01:34] Speaker A: Much love to you.
Namaste, Samindo. Peace and love.
[01:01:39] Speaker B: Peace. Bye, everybody.
