Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: All right. Hey, man, before our first talk, you were gonna go to India, right? That was like kind of part of it, what you're talking about. Yeah. You went to India, you did the pilgrimage. So would you want to get into that a little bit? Like, how was that experience?
[00:00:21] Speaker B: Let's do it. It feels like. Yeah. Picking up where we left off.
Ah, you know, I like just to bring it back. I was raised in a yogic household. I'm around a lot of yogis and reading about transcendent masters and so many of them, you know, you meditate, you transcend this human form and you go into all of it, you realize that God is everything. And it's about sort of transcending this individual, this ego, this. This thing and this thing, this thing that we think we're doing, you know, this thing that we imagine ourselves to be, this, this distinct and individual.
And so much of that is about like renouncing, you know, like, I guess in India, I went to go live with a desert, wandering, renunciant, meditative yogi, very Shaiva yogi.
And it was about leaving this form, really about renouncing food. Oftentimes we were doing a lot of fasting, renouncing quite a bit of human connection. Even. Like I wasn't touching another person. I didn't touch a person for like three and a half months.
A big part of it was renouncing the mind.
You know, renouncing the mind as it relates to all the thoughts of what I.
My memories, my future, tripping, all of the things that help to really.
Yeah, these sort of like fear based, memory based, individually based things. And, and a lot of the practice was just like letting go of the mind. There's a vedantic practice called nitiniti where you say, I am not this, I'm not this, I'm not this. And it's really about renouncing your thoughts because so much of your thoughts are really about the past or about the future and not really about the present. Like, you can't really think in the present. It's all about coming right here.
And that was pretty cool. You know, it was. It was neat to like, to.
To live without the mind.
[00:02:52] Speaker A: Sounds like freedom.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: You know, you think that. And this is what I thought. This is what it sounded like to me. I thought it would be freedom.
I thought it would be like perfect presence.
Because without the mind, you're just right here.
But the ego is not something necessarily to be transcended.
Like, the ego evolves with us to keep us safe. It's the thing that says, don't go into traffic, don't burn yourself on a stove. But furthermore, for most people, it also says, like, you're not enough or you should, you should be fearful, or you need this to be enough, or you need to, you need not to have this. Make sure that people don't see you cry, or make sure that people see you in this light or whatever it is. The ego directs us, and it's mostly fear based, but it's also part of being a human being. And so in the act of totally shutting it out, it was, it was not that it just floated off into a mysterious, you know, into a void of, of. Of Dakinis and beautiful angels. It was like. It felt more like we were like barricading it in the basement.
And.
I think, you know, the last time we spoke, so much of my practice was about like touching into the fear, giving yourself compassion, giving yourself love, recognizing that you are safe and really like, it was an active process of internally reflecting and giving yourself compassion and curiosity.
And so in this transcendent process, it was more like, okay, I'm done with the ego. I'm just going to go transcend.
Ultimately, to cut this long story short, I just found that like, in transcendence, you can transcend, but perhaps that's just another way of escaping.
And the reality of this human condition is that we are living this human condition. We've incarnated to be a human, and that we need to hold on to both of those realities. I guess that we are the transcendent whole of everything.
We are awareness, having a human experience, but that we are very much here to have the human experience and not to avoid that, not to leave that behind.
Because I think we'll probably do that when we die, or maybe we'll do that in our next incarnation or whatever. But like, I am a human here to be a human.
And the skills of being a human are not to just leave this human form, despite how fun that can be.
Back to like really recognizing that, okay, this is here to do the human thing.
[00:05:51] Speaker A: I feel you. Well, thank you for sharing that.
[00:05:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, hold on.
[00:05:55] Speaker A: I can't hear myself. I just got to like, do something
[00:05:57] Speaker B: on my headphones for sure.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: There we go. One, two. Much better.
Thank you for sharing that, man.
Yeah, that's the story of the Buddha, right? He went out, did the aesthetic thing, and then he said, wait a second, this ain't it. I got to go back into the kingdom and teach and serve.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
Although my.
And, and, and your Listeners might like pelt me with stones for saying this, but like even the Buddhist path was, was really heavily informed by the yogic Hindu path. I think Buddhism is sort of like the, the non theistic version of the yogic path which is just like be fully present, meditate to the degree that you realize that all of this is one happening and you are the happening, not the individual.
Like you are the ground of awareness that is aware of your individual self, not the individual with the awareness.
Very similar to yoga.
But the Buddha even, I mean he talked about a middle path, but even that was like about transcending and it was about.
Of course there's so many types of Buddhism now.
I'm living in a very like tantric place which, which is to say like, how do I fully embody this human thing without pushing anything away? And I find that in most Buddhist circles that I've been a part of, it's still been about like, how do I, how do I create an environment where I'm just still present and not necessarily in, in the context that I'm exploring, which is like I want to explode into all of it.
Yeah, yeah.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: Well, I think that's the problem of people becoming Buddhist is they don't really understand or they interpret the Buddhists middle way as that, as the, as the escape or the ascetic approach. And in the west that's a little tough to do. In the west you have to, I believe, be more tantric and turn that what you thought was poison of your life into nectar. And if you try to run away, if you try to become the fake ascetic. Right.
Phony holy, as Ram Dass would say, it's only going to turn against you and it's just going to be another ego trap. And I see that in a lot of practicing Buddhists, like you know, colloquial Buddhists. It's like you're just, you're just a little phony holy. I'm not judging, but I just, I see that and I actually went through that myself. Totally. I'm speaking from personal experience. It's like this ain't it either. Because it's like you can run away. You can try to run away to the monastery or the cave or India, but really you're still on earth. You're still human. Like there's nowhere you can go, there's no escape. Okay. You're human no matter where you go.
[00:09:06] Speaker B: Wherever you go, there you are.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: Exactly.
Yeah.
And. Yeah, sorry, go ahead.
[00:09:12] Speaker B: No, no, I, I found even in India, like Ram Dass also said, also notes on these like horny celibates.
Like, yeah, I was in resistance to these things that I didn't want to engage with because I thought that they would ruin my practice or whatever, when in reality they like owned me even more because I was like giving them all this energy of like. No, no, no.
[00:09:39] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: It was a lot of, a lot of self negating.
Human negating.
Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:09:55] Speaker A: Let me ask you this one though. Like, how do you say the embrace of the human experience is different? Like, now that you know what, you know, what is the tantric path to you? Like, there's got to be a little bit of a difference in how you embody William Burke, right?
[00:10:14] Speaker B: Definitely.
Where am I at now with that? I think.
The question for me is like, how do I just stay absolutely present with anything that is happening in my world without the desire to own it and without the desire to run away from it?
It's just a matter of like, this is happening. This is the dance of existence for awareness. And not, not that there's two, not that there's a duality there. Like, this is, this is awareness dancing in itself, for itself, as itself.
[00:11:06] Speaker A: Shiva Shakti.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: Well, not even, I mean, just Shakti or just, you know, Shiva Shakti, I guess. But like, I wouldn't even, like, I wouldn't even say that there's a duality there. Like, I, I, I had this really transcendent sort of like click the other day that you might enjoy. Like, I imagine that the whole of the universe is, let's imagine it as a line. Like the universe kicks off in this explosion of birth.
And right before that, it's just a single moment.
And it does this whole wild dance in the, in the medium. And like, and all of us are that, all of us are that incredible dance. And then ultimately it will come back to stillness, come back to that very same point that it was at before it started.
And everything happens that way. I mean, the human life is like, we are born into this very present moment right here when we're first born. Like, all there is is the moment. And then when we die, all there is is the moment.
And in the recognition that everything is this wave, everything will, will start in a, in just a single thing and come back to just a single thing.
Once you can see yourself in that, like, okay, I'm fully present right here, just as I would be in my moment of birth, my moment of debt.
Then everything that's happening around you is just like, is the play. I think you come to that still awareness and everything else is the play.
And so that's really what I'm playing with now is like, how do I just find stillness and acknowledge the fact that everything is happening in my awareness, including me, which will come and go and die and. And.
And another being will be born in the similar awareness.
Yeah. Almost the ground of my being is the ground of your being is the ground of everything that is happening.
[00:13:25] Speaker A: Well spoken. Yeah.
[00:13:26] Speaker B: I don't know.
[00:13:29] Speaker A: That's good. Very far out.
Yeah.
[00:13:33] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's been cool to live that way. It's been cool to, like, watch myself.
[00:13:40] Speaker A: I think that's the essence of immortality, man. You see beyond birth, beyond death.
[00:13:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
That is the essence of immortality. Yeah.
I think just recognizing that you are a vibration, as is everything, and you will live on through all of it.
Yeah.
There's a reason all of these gods are covered in skulls and living on carnal grounds and covered in ash.
Our.
The recognition of our morale, our mortality is our liberation.
[00:14:28] Speaker A: Yeah, man. I think that's what the whole thing's about. Like, that's. That's it. Like, once you recognize that you are mortal, that you're already dead in some way, then you become free.
[00:14:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:40] Speaker A: That's really what the spiritual path is all about, man, is being able to integrate that.
Integrate that into the play of your life.
You're a dead man walking.
[00:14:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And you get to live forever in the present.
[00:14:55] Speaker A: Yeah. It's a simultaneousness. Yeah.
[00:14:58] Speaker B: Oh, gosh, the paradoxes.
I'm so in love with the paradoxes.
Yeah. That we are so finite, yet we are so infinite.
That we are God. Like, we are all of it, yet we are just the passing blink of a, you know, of a wisp.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: Just a wisp in the wind.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: A wisp in the wind.
Yeah.
[00:15:28] Speaker A: Mm.
That is the essence of the middle way, I feel. It's being able to weigh.
No pun intended, those two polar opposites.
Right. In many different ways. Many different poles of our being, depending on how you look at it. But the biggest one, I would say. Yeah. Is that you are God, but you are also God in drag as a human being.
So that's like. It's almost a joke in some way. Right? The recognition of that. It's a cosmic joke.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: Totally. Yeah. Like, we've got all the control, yet none of it. That's the only way to, like. The only way to move forward is to let go. You know, it's like. It's.
There's so much.
[00:16:12] Speaker A: There's too many cliches, too many paradoxes.
[00:16:15] Speaker B: Yeah, Paradox.
[00:16:16] Speaker A: Yeah. We probably all heard before, but yeah, man, that's the essence.
[00:16:22] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's interesting to, like, hear them and to really, like, embody them, know them and work with them.
[00:16:31] Speaker A: Work with it. You got to work with the paradox. Yeah,
[00:16:36] Speaker B: yeah.
[00:16:38] Speaker A: That's tantra.
[00:16:39] Speaker B: That's tantra.
[00:16:40] Speaker A: That's the turning the poison into nectar. Yeah, yeah. See, and that's the thing is, like, if you can reside.
Easier said than done, obviously, but it's possible if you can reside in that true middle way, the stillness in the motion, the shiva to the shakti. Right. Dance the dance perfectly. I feel like it makes the dance different, you know, like, it changes up the flavor of your being, and that's what it's all about, you know, I think it makes you just a naturally more loving being, naturally more of a servant in some way toward the people around you and the goings on of your life. I think there is this, like, essence once you touch upon that certain understanding, the realization within your life there is this, like, new flavor. I don't know how to explain it. There's like this, you know, this light that comes about, and I feel it from other people. I'm not even just speaking from myself, for sure. I feel it within myself. But, like, when I come across people that are very, you know, on this wavelength of the path, we could say, I don't even know what you want to call it, but there's just something in their presence that is just like, ah, it's refreshing. I feel it. It's like, contagious, you know, the love is contagious.
And that's what it's all about. I think it's. We dance to dance a little bit differently than we danced before.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. I think it's that we don't. We realize that we're not driving the car. We can let go of the steering wheel.
[00:18:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:06] Speaker B: And that even if we were driving the car and it went off the cliff, like, we're still driving all the other cars. I don't know. This is a good car. I love this car. I really love this car.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:18:19] Speaker B: I don't get to hold on to it. It's a lease.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: It's all on lease.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:26] Speaker A: That's freedom, too, is being able to understand that we own nothing here. We don't even own our body.
[00:18:31] Speaker B: No.
[00:18:31] Speaker A: Right. And that can seem scary to the ego if you don't know any better. If this is everybody's first time hearing it, I imagine it's not. But if it is, it can be A little daunting to know that literally you own nothing. Right. We get conditioned from birth to think that you need to own this, you need to look like this, you need to sound like this. You got to be this person. But none of that is permanent. All of that is just a wisp in the wind. Everything. Everything comes and goes.
[00:19:00] Speaker B: Like, that's. That is this part of us, part of being a being.
And that fear will reach on to all of these things. And the unraveling is the speaking to the fear with compassion and being like, oh, buddy, I know this is so scary.
I know that you want to live forever and you want to hold on and you want to make sure that we're safe and all of that, but, like, truly, we are going to be dust and we may as well dance.
I like that.
[00:19:35] Speaker A: Might as well. Why not?
[00:19:37] Speaker B: What else are we doing? What else are we doing?
I could torture myself into being more, like, getting more. Holding on tighter or whatever, but, yeah, if it's not fun, Yeah, it's a. It's just another sort of way I'm incarnating my fear way of, like, expressing my holding on.
[00:20:07] Speaker A: That's a good point. I think we touched upon this in our first conversation. A little bit about what we understand fun is or what we understand being in joy is, you know, on the path. And we realize it's not all about hedonism.
It's not what the world wants to sell you in that way. If it is, it is. But I think there's a correlation with a certain understanding within yourself that being. Enjoy.
Right. Enjoying your life is. Is not about the drugs, the cocaine, the strippers. We literally said that. It's not about, like, you know, going into the vices. It might be for, you know, who knows? It's hard to speak generally, but I think there's a general correlation between enjoying one's life and just simply just showing up in presence. I know that sounds a little corny and cliche, but, like, in whatever you're at, quite simply, you're just, like, present with the people that are around you and you're there for them. That's what it really means to enjoy this life. Right. And.
Right. It doesn't mean, like, you negate all the fun, the. The classically fun stuff. Right. That we like. But we realize that that's not the pinnacle. That's really not what life's all about.
[00:21:21] Speaker B: Well, you know that those things don't own you or control you.
[00:21:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: I've spent time studying, like, Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh Osho. I've spent time studying, like, Chogan Trampa Rinpoche, and they were materialists, like, especially in the second half of their guruship. Like, Osho had 90 something.
Was it Mercedes Benz's? No, it was Rolls Royces.
[00:21:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: And people were like, what. What is that? Like, he had cult members that were slaving away and. And he had all of these Rolls Royces. But the fun of it was just like, maybe that's not a. That's a touch. It's. It's a.
It's a good example, but it might be touchy for some people. But the Rolls Royces didn't own him. He was playing in the.
In the dance of wow. There's all of this material wealth, and people are giving me these gifts, and I'm just. I'm just playing with it.
And you hear of a lot of these enlightened masters that are alcoholics or love sleeping with a lot of women.
And it's.
And it's like, why? You know, I think for most people, for me, it would be like, oh, I want that. I need that. I want to, like, I. I need a bunch of romantic connections so that I feel better about myself.
But if you're really in this dance with.
With God, and none of this feels like an attachment, then when it comes in and it goes out, and like, maybe you. You never do any of this, or maybe it happens, but it's an authentic dance that's not about, like, grasping, and every one is grasping, but when you're. When you're sort of, like, fully there and there's nothing left to grasp and you're just fully present, then when there's 90 Rolls Royces, like, that's just the dance that's happening, and. And. And you could let them all go or you could. You know, so the material stuff, yeah, I feel like it was. It's good to have a time of celibacy, of renunciation, where these things don't control you and you let them go and, you know you're safe without them.
I went through a big, like, celibate portal, and it was really good to, like, know, okay, like, I'm. I'm safe on my own. Like, I don't need people to bolster my ego. I don't need to desire. I don't need this. I don't.
But on the other side of it, I'm like, okay, if it. If it comes in and it's the dance and it's beautiful, then let that be the dance.
And if it goes, it's.
It goes. And if it comes again, it's beautiful, but not. It doesn't control me.
And when you're grasping, it controls you. And when you're fighting it, it controls you.
[00:24:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:30] Speaker A: Let what comes, come, and let what goes, go. A wise man once said.
[00:24:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. And when you're working from the individual, from the ego, from the. Like, I'm gonna die. I need to make sure I'm safe.
Yeah. It's. It's you. You. You move into the world from a grasping place.
Yeah.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
I think you described it very well in terms of safety. Like, you're safe no matter what. Knowing that you are safe no matter what. That's the huge realization.
[00:25:03] Speaker B: Well, you're safe in your complete unsafety.
There's a. There's a choker quote that's like, I have some bad news.
You are falling endlessly.
You are falling perilously, endlessly.
And there's no parachute.
The good news is that there's no ground.
I didn't quite nail the quote, but that was good. Like, got it.
There's safety in the fact that there's complete unsafety. The recognition that you are going to be absolutely torn up by the tiger of life, of this existence. Like, you are dead already.
You are gone.
[00:25:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:49] Speaker B: And it's. It's like there was another one that's like life is licking honey from the blade of a knife.
[00:25:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:58] Speaker B: Yeah. I love that. It's just like, it's. It's the. It's the most painful and the sweetest, but you know that you're. You are going to die. And in that death, you are free.
[00:26:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
Good stuff.
[00:26:20] Speaker B: I don't tell people that in the er, by the way.
[00:26:24] Speaker A: What'd you say?
[00:26:25] Speaker B: I don't tell people that in the er.
Yeah.
[00:26:28] Speaker A: You're sitting next to a patient, like, spraying their ankle.
[00:26:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
Maybe you're transient. It's all transient.
[00:26:37] Speaker A: It's all transient, man. We're all in a free fall with no bottom.
[00:26:40] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:26:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:26:42] Speaker B: You're dead already, baby.
[00:26:47] Speaker A: This is good stuff, Ed.
[00:26:48] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks.
Yeah. For anyone who doesn't know, my main job is an ER doctor, and then I just read books and do meditations on the other side. I've been doing this cool thing, actually. I'd love to share.
It's called community service. And the idea is it's like a community dance meditation potluck. Like a place for people to let go and be themselves and also work with the mind and let that come and go and Be in connection.
All the money we make, it's donation based. But all the money that we make up we use for creating sort of active love and joy experiments in the community.
So like after one of the events we bought 700 ice cream and just gave them out in the park.
Another one we, we bought tons and tons of flowers and everyone took a bouquet and the only job was like to give them out to people just as they were out in the world.
Or we just like all the money that we make we put in a. Just a bowl and anyone can take however much they want, but the only rule is that they have to give it away.
And it's been really fun. It's been really fun to practice that. Like that non attachment but also the active power of like how am I willed in my own life to give and spread joy and, and to play. Yeah. It's really about like playing with, with joy.
[00:28:25] Speaker A: It's a play of devotion.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And to me like the whole thing is my, it's my spiritual practice which is like, it's hard for me to be seen and her like all of this is extremely uncomfortable, which is why. Oh yeah, totally.
[00:28:44] Speaker A: And,
[00:28:47] Speaker B: and also to like give selflessly, like to, to, to do a thing that's not like I'm not making money, I'm not making anything out of it. It's just like, here's my little act and it's been really cool. It's been really fun to like practice that.
[00:29:04] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Probably feels really amazing, right?
[00:29:07] Speaker B: It feels cool. Yeah, it feels cool. Like empower other people to do stuff like that that they wouldn't otherwise empower myself. I mean the whole thing is like.
Yeah.
[00:29:19] Speaker A: It's kind of be like being a glitch in the Matrix, right?
[00:29:23] Speaker B: Yeah, dude. And people are so unaccustomed to non transactional love.
[00:29:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:30] Speaker B: A love that just says like you don't do anything. You are just perfect exactly as you are. I want to, I want to give.
And not about reciprocation.
[00:29:41] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the glitch.
[00:29:43] Speaker B: That's the glitch. Exactly. Exactly. All we know in this world is transaction. Like or at least in the society I'm. I'm exposed to, it's about what can I get when I give you this? And even love, even I think a lot of romantic love is built on that same transactional safety creation. It's like, you'll be with me, so I'll be with you and you'll love me. So I contractually love you forever. And it's not about, like, how do we die into this moment with each other and see what becomes of us?
[00:30:24] Speaker A: Oof.
Seriously? Yeah. I mean, we use the word love for our relationships with each other, but I think it rarely touches upon true love. I know that sounds a little corny, but it's the truth, man.
There's very few people that I have unconditional love with in my life, and I know a lot of people, but I can recognize that sometimes it's. Well, a lot of times it's contractual, as you said. It's conditional. And I'm guilty of it too, for sure. I'm not a perfect being. There's a lot of times where I'm like, oh, you know this person.
I don't. I don't even want to get into it. But there's, you know, there's. There's, like. There's a contract.
There's a contract in my head. But true love has no contract. There is no.
[00:31:08] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: There's no, like, wanting to get anything from anybody.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: You know, it's like, I'm gonna do this so that you can give me this.
[00:31:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:16] Speaker B: I'm gonna love you this way, so you make me feel this way. Yeah.
Yeah. And I want to, like, yeah. My desire is to be love. My desire is to just, like, how in every moment do I just take all of this and shine it out as who I am, as I am? Like, I want to like, yeah.
[00:31:41] Speaker A: Give yourself to the world. Right?
[00:31:42] Speaker B: Give yourself to the world. Yeah. Yeah. Lay yourself in the lion's mouth and just say, like, yeah. Yeah. I think that was, like, the most beautiful part of Jesus's journey, was at the end, he was like, I know I'm going to die.
I love God so much that I will. I will. Will lay myself out.
And even in his last moments, was. Was there forgiving, Was there letting go and. And recognizing that it's. Yeah, it's all. It's all love, even in the pain.
[00:32:27] Speaker A: Amen.
[00:32:28] Speaker B: Amen.
[00:32:29] Speaker A: Praise Jesus.
[00:32:30] Speaker B: Oh, I love some Jesus.
[00:32:33] Speaker A: Me too. That's the main theme of Jesus, is his sacrifice, his giving to the world, giving to humanity. Right.
I think that's the path for all of us. In some way, we all have to bear our own cross. Not literally, metaphorically, but I think that's the spiritual path for all of us.
[00:32:52] Speaker B: Definitely.
But I think Jesus's death was just, like. Was just an exclamation point on the thing. I don't think it was the thing. I think it was just like, I am so in love with the world that magic happens. I'm so in love with the world that I'm not even here. I'm not even Jesus. I think he said so many times, the Father and I are one.
But I think it was always about, the Father and I are one.
We're all one. We're all the children of God. We can all come to this place of pure surrender and love if you let yourself go. And I think he said, like, the only way to God is through me, really, meaning through the practice of total surrender. And when he died, it was never, in my opinion, a.
Like, I need to do this for all of humanity so that their sins are washed away or whatever he was. I don't think Jesus ever wanted to be famous. He never wrote anything down. He never, like, announced himself. It was always like, I'm kind of a crazy man. I'm going to go into the desert. I'm going to flip tables in the marketplace. I'm going to piss people off.
And ultimately pissed the Pharisee off so much by saying, like, we don't need this old.
All we need is love. All we need is presence. Love your neighbor.
Don't be the judge. Yeah, that was a big thing. Like, that doesn't come through is like, you know, Jesus never said, judge your neighbor or never said, like, punish anyone. It was always like, God will take care of all of that. You just be loving.
And in the end, you know, he loved. He was so in.
In practice or in not practice. He was so in it. Like, there wasn't a part of him that wasn't in it. And he said, like, I will.
I will die so that I can play my part and spread and. And teach people that it is truly not about you, the individual. It was truly about the, The. The love, and that is eternal.
[00:34:58] Speaker A: Amen.
[00:35:00] Speaker B: Dude, Love some Jesus.
[00:35:01] Speaker A: Spitting some fire today, man.
[00:35:02] Speaker B: Oh, thank you. Yeah. We almost didn't do this. I was like, I'm sleepy.
You got me started.
[00:35:08] Speaker A: Got that Holy spirit rolling through us.
[00:35:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:14] Speaker A: Yeah. And there's really no other sage that comes to mind that has a more powerful story than Jesus.
Right. I'm quite secular in my beliefs, but there's something about the story of Jesus and Christianity altogether. Not the religion, like, you know, not the dogma, like the actual story. If you read it for yourself, it's so powerful. And I don't think any other sage really comes close. Right. Just literally giving their life and going up on the cross, like, that's some powerful.
[00:35:43] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't even call it Christianity, like, I don't even equate Christianity and, and Jesus. Like. Yeah, the way I see Jesus is like, he is a amazing. He's one of the best ever. Do it. Do the thing.
He's a, he's the Michael Jordan of.
I don't know, I'm not a sports person, but he's like the, he's the Michael Jordan of, Of love. Of love. Of love. And, and, and Christianity, honestly, has not a lot of resemblance to, to the word or to the actions of Christ. There are people who live in that way who are Christians, certainly, but I haven't encountered a lot of Christianity that I thought like, wow, this is like how to walk the path of Christ.
[00:36:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:33] Speaker B: And I feel that he wanted for us is to. Is to walk with him and to.
But yeah, who has a, who has an equally cool story?
I mean, the Buddha story is like, it's kind of iffy in my opinion. Leave, Leave your wife and kids,
[00:36:50] Speaker A: go
[00:36:51] Speaker B: out into the woods for five years.
[00:36:58] Speaker A: Yeah, there's lessons in there, but it's not like Jesus. Yeah, it's not.
[00:37:02] Speaker B: Yeah, it's not quite.
Yeah. And I've eaten on it.
Sorry if anyone feels like I'm hating on the Buddha.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, he's just got this ultimate story of like renunciation in the most beautiful way. Non attachment, I guess that's what you call it. Not renunciation, but true non attachment. True love.
[00:37:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And also the warrior spirit, the loving warrior.
[00:37:30] Speaker B: Wow.
Yeah. And that's what you really need if you're going to face, you know, to come to that place of love. You need to really face all that is standing in front of love.
All the ego creations and all the things that you've been looking away from.
I think it's important that, you know, you sort of have to go through those five years of, of pain or whatever in the desert or this 40, 40 days and 40 nights of just like, I'm here for all of it. I will sit through all of it. Buddha at the end, I guess those five days under the Bodhi tree where he's like just Mara and, and all the.
Everyone offering him everything in the whole world. Everything, everything, everything, everything. And he stays still. He's like, I am.
And then transcends. And Jesus did that too.
I don't know if it's actually canon or if it's. I recently read the Last Temptation of Christ. Have you read that?
[00:38:35] Speaker A: Is that an actual book or are you talking about like in the Bible?
[00:38:37] Speaker B: No, no, it's a book. The Last Temptation Of Christ.
It's by a Greek author who won a Nobel Prize in literature for a different book.
But the Last Temptation of Christ is incredible. It's the most banned book in history.
And it tells the story of Jesus as a human, as a man, but like the lowest of the low, as, like someone who's deeply afraid, full of sin, full of fear, full of angst.
And he moves through the story of Christ in a way that's completely.
In a way that you can really connect to as a human, as a dualistic human. Because in some way, the story of Christ as the Son of God, as the only Son of God, the only perfect Son, is a flawed story in an accessible spiritual way.
If he's the only one, then why would I try?
You know, if he was born without sin, to the virgin, to the thing, then it's a bit inaccessible. But this tells the story. No, of like, oh, he's just a normal mortal guy who comes through all these levels of transcendence and with his own weaknesses and things. It's really, really good. You should check it out.
[00:40:06] Speaker A: I have to check that out. Yeah.
[00:40:07] Speaker B: They made a movie also in the 80s about it.
Yeah.
[00:40:13] Speaker A: Cool. Thanks for sharing.
[00:40:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:40:16] Speaker A: Excuse me. Hold on.
I'm still dealing a little remnants of bronchitis here.
Yeah. That's half the battle of the story of Christ that I think Christianity sort of misses is that he was also man.
You know, and the.
I was gonna say the failings. Not necessarily the failings, but the.
[00:40:46] Speaker B: How do I put this?
[00:40:48] Speaker A: The faultiness, maybe of Jesus. Right. The. The sort of. The very human parts are very important to understand.
Like when he was in the garden of. I forgot how you pronounce it, Josephine. Something like that. The night before his crucifixion, he was like, hey, God, do we really got to do it this way? Yeah. Are you sure it's got to be like this? I know Thy will be done, but I'm a little scared.
[00:41:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:15] Speaker A: And, yeah, in the part where he gets mad with the Pharisees and flipping the table and just stuff like that. Right. The very human aspects of Jesus is what I also appreciate about the story, because it means something for us is that we, you know, in walking in his footsteps, we're going to have to embody that very humanness as we spoke of in this conversation, but also that sense of the divine by giving ourselves to others. So. And I think that's how we do it, is like, that's how we kind of dance the dance and we toe that line in the faultiness of our humanness. We. We just give ourselves. We just continually resonate with Thy will be done.
[00:41:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:58] Speaker A: And that's the way, man. You know, one of my favorite quotes is, I'm not doing it verbatim here, but it's like, people that will come after me will do works greater than I.
[00:42:09] Speaker B: Right.
[00:42:09] Speaker A: That's the thing. Christians also, they don't bring that one up.
It's like Jesus wanted us to be better than him. Don't you understand?
[00:42:16] Speaker B: Right.
[00:42:17] Speaker A: He don't want us to bow down his feet. He wanted us to be better than him, and he even said that in his own words. And Christian is just like, yeah, whatever.
[00:42:24] Speaker B: That's what.
[00:42:24] Speaker A: Just.
[00:42:25] Speaker B: I don't know.
[00:42:25] Speaker A: It's going to ignore that one.
[00:42:27] Speaker B: Yeah. The one that that's often ignored is the.
It's easier for a camel to walk through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter heaven.
[00:42:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:39] Speaker B: And. And this society is so much about hoarding and about accumulating wealth and.
And, yeah. I mean, it's.
[00:42:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:55] Speaker B: If we're really to be like him, it should be a. We should live a life of charity and. And poverty. I mean, all. Like, he, He. He didn't have a home.
You know, the guy didn't have a home.
[00:43:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:10] Speaker B: Have anything.
[00:43:11] Speaker A: I would say rather than poverty, I would say simplicity.
[00:43:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And I think. I think you're right.
[00:43:19] Speaker A: Right. Fine line. Because if we take that a little too seriously, we're going back into the.
The points of our. In the beginning of the conversation where we're like, you know, you're pushing it away a little too much.
Right. Trying to run away from the world.
[00:43:36] Speaker B: Although I found.
I find that. Yeah. Simplicity. And. And I guess that's all it is. It's like I was wandering the desert, and it was nice to just have a backpack, and it was nice to just have, you know, two pairs of clothes and just to let go in that way.
But it's certainly nice to have an
[00:43:59] Speaker A: apartment here in New York and air conditioning.
[00:44:02] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you don't miss it a while.
[00:44:07] Speaker A: Really.
Really.
[00:44:09] Speaker B: Life gets easier. Yeah. I definitely makes sense. Yeah.
[00:44:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:15] Speaker B: Although, I mean, obviously, I've never experienced, like, poverty in the inescapable way, and I don't.
[00:44:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:23] Speaker B: Yeah. So let's. Let's stick with simplicity.
[00:44:27] Speaker A: Simplicity, exactly.
[00:44:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:44:31] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's important to honor your incarnation, especially where you were born.
Right. I firmly believe that we were all born in a specific location for a reason. It's not all random.
[00:44:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:44:46] Speaker A: Right. We have certain karma that we have to live out based upon the country. Country we were born in, the people around us, the. Yeah. The circumstances, just the stuff that's available to us. So I think it's important for all of us to honor that.
Easy for me to say. Like you said, I was born in a first world country with a lot of luxury.
[00:45:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:12] Speaker A: Right. Would I think the same if I was living in Nepal where there's flash floods?
I don't know.
It's hard to say.
[00:45:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, Hinduism does that too, but that was the way that they.
They underpinned the caste system was like, you incarnated as this thing, so now you got to do it.
You know, the other side of it is, is it can be a little murky.
[00:45:42] Speaker A: Yeah, No, I really believe that. I think there's like a.
There's a place for all of us, and however we were born, and there's no better or worse. Like, it's not like, you know, the Brahmin are up here and then the. I forget the name of the lowly class of the caste system.
Yeah. The untouchables. It's not. I don't know. I don't think it's like a rank thing like that. I think it's just like.
It's just about your karma. It's just about what you need to live out.
[00:46:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah, I guess so.
I mean. Or your karma is to. That I'm gonna go from poverty to. To riches and.
And God may very well enjoy that too.
[00:46:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:46:29] Speaker B: Or. Or it's the dance of. I'm gonna go from. From being the king to being the exile, and God willing.
[00:46:38] Speaker A: Hard to say. Hard to generalize.
[00:46:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, whatever ends up happening is the dance of awareness. And whether that is supposed to happen or not, I don't think it matters.
Ultimately, it is what is happening.
And.
Yeah, Yeah, I. I've totally given up on any judgment calls of, like, of people's lives. It's like. Like this is. This is the dance of shakti in you, and it's beautiful and we applaud it.
If you want to be awake. Amazing. If you want to stay asleep. Beautiful.
[00:47:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.
Because really, at the end of the day, we're all equal. We're all just naive children of God. It doesn't matter how much money you have, where you were born, what you look like. We're all in the same boat.
[00:47:34] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:47:34] Speaker A: At the end of the day, we're all mortal beings. Right. All going to get old, sick and die. So.
[00:47:40] Speaker B: And we're going to try to figure it out the best way we can.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:47:48] Speaker A: And one person's figuring it out might be a better situation for them that doesn't look necessarily nice on the surface level. Totally. Than another person who has money. They got all the riches. And you think they got it figured out? It looks like they got it figured out.
And really they're just deeply suffering. I think that's the thing, too.
[00:48:08] Speaker B: Or maybe they do. Maybe they got it figured out. Like they're wealthy. They're.
[00:48:12] Speaker A: They're. They might. Exactly. That's the thing is they. That's. That's why it's better. As you said, just not judge anything. There's no judgment call. There's no better or worse. There's no higher or lower. Like, at the end of the day, we really don't know another person's situation, another person's karma. All we know is ourself, really.
[00:48:29] Speaker B: I mean, I would argue we don't even know that.
[00:48:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:48:33] Speaker B: I don't know the hell happening.
[00:48:35] Speaker A: Exactly. The only thing I can truly know is I don't know myself. So how can I suppose that I can know somebody else situation.
[00:48:42] Speaker B: Exactly. All you know is the present.
True. Everything else is just appearing in the present. All you can know is awareness right here.
That's what we have to just keep coming back to, you know, Everything else will just weave its way in and out of that awareness, and you just stay right here.
[00:49:03] Speaker A: So simple, man.
[00:49:05] Speaker B: So simple.
With the caveat no one should listen to us, honestly.
[00:49:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:12] Speaker B: Anyone who's listening to this, just, you're doing great. You're perfect just as you are. Don't even.
Don't even stress it.
[00:49:21] Speaker A: I appreciate it.
You know, I'm honored if anybody has listened this long, but.
Yeah, you don't need me. You don't need Dr. William Burke. Maybe in the emergency room sometimes.
[00:49:32] Speaker B: Yeah, if you get stabbed in the neck, I'm your guy.
Definitely.
[00:49:38] Speaker A: But, yeah, in terms of, you know, enlightenment, whatever that means, you don't need this stuff. You don't need YouTube.
No, truly, I recognize that. Even myself, as I'm doing these conversations with people, I'm like, where am I? It's like, what's going on here? What am I doing here? You know?
[00:49:53] Speaker B: You know?
Yeah, yeah, it's fun.
[00:49:57] Speaker A: At the end of the day, I'm just having fun. Like, I just enjoy this, but I know that I don't need to do it. But I think that's why I'm Able to do it, you know, kind of getting back on that thing. We want what we can't have. Well, I don't really care if I don't have this. So for some reason, I always have these opportunities of conversation. It's weirdo. Life works like that, you know?
[00:50:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:50:17] Speaker A: It's like, we get it. We get it all when we give it all up.
[00:50:22] Speaker B: We get it all when we give it all up. You get more probably than you could have ever imagined getting.
[00:50:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't even want it.
[00:50:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:50:34] Speaker A: I don't know.
[00:50:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know where. Where it goes.
Where do you. Where do you send people when they're like, oh, I want to. I'm interested in this spiritual journey. What do you. What do you give?
[00:50:47] Speaker A: I don't really get that question that much. I'm interested in the spiritual journey just from, like, somebody that has no idea what. What we're talking about right now.
[00:50:54] Speaker B: Yeah. It was sort of like, oh, I'm interested in understanding reality and my place in it, and I'm interested.
[00:51:00] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a good question, man.
Well, I'm. Yeah, I'm just gonna be real. Like, most people don't even ask me. Most people already kind of know what's up.
Right. But if I do come across somebody that is like, gary, what's going on? What's those videos about? I just say it's a philosophy thing.
[00:51:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:51:18] Speaker A: It's about meditation and yoga.
[00:51:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:51:20] Speaker A: But hypothetically, if somebody were to really be intrigued and like, hey, man, what's this all about? Like, how can I. How can I get what you got, per se?
I would say I probably send it on rom dust. Like, hey, man, check out Ram dust.
[00:51:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, you can't fail with ramnas.
[00:51:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
I like to send people, my teachers, you know, because I don't. Like, I never send people my own videos. I feel like that's weird.
[00:51:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:51:47] Speaker A: And like I said, I appreciate in honor if people do get stuff from these talks, but I. I like to send people what helped me. So I'll send them like a book or I'll send them a talk or I'll send them Ram Dass. Like I said, I don't know.
That's usually how I help people. If they have any questions, it's like, whatever, help me.
[00:52:06] Speaker B: Yeah, love that.
[00:52:07] Speaker A: Yeah. But also, it's important to know whatever helped me isn't going to help other people. It might for sure, but everybody's got their own journey as well.
[00:52:15] Speaker B: I'm of the firm belief that everyone needs to create their own religion.
[00:52:19] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:52:20] Speaker B: Like that. That Buddhism was what helped the Buddha and Christ is what liberated the Christ. But our Christianity.
But that we just need to create some weird mix that makes sense to our consciousness here.
[00:52:35] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.
[00:52:37] Speaker B: That's kind of weird.
[00:52:38] Speaker A: For sure.
Timothy Leary has a book, literally, it's called create your own religion.
[00:52:44] Speaker B: Is that right?
[00:52:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:52:46] Speaker B: I've never read anything like Timothy Leary. Maybe I should.
Yeah.
[00:52:49] Speaker A: He's awesome. He's a huge inspiration for me. Just his rebellious spirit.
[00:52:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
Wow.
[00:52:54] Speaker A: And that's how I got in the Ram Dass, because, you know, obviously they were boys.
[00:52:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow. Oh, that's such an interesting avenue.
[00:53:01] Speaker A: Yeah. That's how I got into psychedelics, really. Because I was a history fan. I was reading a book called Acid Dreams. It was about the 60s, and they were talking a lot about psychedelics. I'm like, what is this all about? What's the psychedelics all about? What are these mushrooms all about? Because it was talking about the experiments they were doing at Harvard. Yeah. And it just piqued my interest. And I said, well, I want to know what. What this book's saying. And.
[00:53:23] Speaker B: Cool.
[00:53:24] Speaker A: Ate some mushrooms and the rest is history.
[00:53:26] Speaker B: It often works like that, huh? Often goes like that. And a lot of people are going to be eating mushrooms in the future. Coming up.
[00:53:34] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:53:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Legalization is moving quickly.
[00:53:38] Speaker A: That's. I mean, if you want to really get serious about. If somebody asked me that question, like, hey, what's the spiritual path all about? I'd be like, maybe I got some mushrooms for you.
Let me try these.
Complete darkness by yourself.
Then come back and talk to me.
Maybe just say, not always. It's not a guarantee. I'm just saying.
[00:54:00] Speaker B: Not doctor recommended.
[00:54:01] Speaker A: I'll just saying, definitely not medical advice. I'll put that at the top of. There we are.
[00:54:05] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:54:05] Speaker A: Thank you.
Just saying it might help, but.
Yeah, man. We all got our own path. We all got our own way. Mushrooms and no mushrooms. Ram Dass. No Ram Dass. It's hard for us to say. I can only say what held me. I can only be a testament to myself. And you can only be a testament to yourself.
[00:54:22] Speaker B: And what a beautiful testament you are in that leopard purple, dude.
[00:54:26] Speaker A: I love it. Like it?
[00:54:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it.
[00:54:30] Speaker A: Gotta show up just to impress, bro.
[00:54:34] Speaker B: Thank you, man. This has been so good. I'm so glad.
Got to reconnect. Yeah.
[00:54:40] Speaker A: I'm glad we got the riff a little bit, but yeah. Dr. William Burke. I think it's a wonderful note to wrap this up. At? Do you have anything else you want to say? You just want to keep it at that?
[00:54:47] Speaker B: Just everybody keep going, keep going, keep going.
[00:54:52] Speaker A: I got this. I found this.
I was walking in the woods one day, not even near a golf course, and I found this.
Keep swinging.
[00:55:03] Speaker B: Hell, yeah, dude.
[00:55:05] Speaker A: Keep swinging, everybody. I keep this on my desk.
[00:55:07] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:55:07] Speaker A: Not near any golf course. And I felt like somebody, whoever wrote that, they wrote that for me to find and keep on my desk. So keep swinging, everybody.
[00:55:14] Speaker B: Beautiful.
All right.
[00:55:16] Speaker A: All right, y'. All.
[00:55:17] Speaker B: Ciao.
[00:55:17] Speaker A: Peace and love.
