Awakening, Liberation and Shifting into Peace with Aaron Hatefi

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Well, Aaron, thank you for joining me today, man. [00:00:03] Speaker B: Thanks. [00:00:05] Speaker A: So, yeah, getting this thing started, would you be able to give us a little bit about who you are and what you do? Exactly. [00:00:13] Speaker B: It's kind of funny because what I Talk about on YouTube is very different from my daily life. I'm a very ordinary guy, works a blue collar job. I paint cars, nothing fantastic. I'm a parent, I have three kids. So I'm either at home playing with my kids or at work or meditating or reading. That's pretty much my entire life. What happened is I just had what people call like an ego death or a. Just a radical shift in the way that I operate and view the world and like truly live that. I just started sharing because it was. I just thought it was amazing. But also I am very immature in it. I've only been in this new frame of mind for like 10 months and I have learned sharing because, you know, when you're public and you get a lot of comments, some people aren't the nicest, that's for sure. I have gotten a lot of feedback and I've actually gotten to learn a lot from the positive and the negative comments. So, yeah, I'm just on a. Seems to be a journey. I know there's a place where people say there is no journey, there's no path. I still seem to be very much on a spiritual journey. And the freedom that came with that first shift was so fantastic that I just started sharing and surprising to me, people actually listen. I find it fascinating that anybody even listens to what I'm saying because I just feel completely normal and not different than anybody else. [00:01:56] Speaker A: Well, I think that's what people like is the normalcy and relativity that someone can bring to this whole thing. [00:02:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I try to stay human and not sound like some guru in the clouds. [00:02:09] Speaker A: Yeah, that's cool. So would you be able to get into what led to this new insight? [00:02:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I can try. That part's always really hard because, you know, like, say you change your diet, you stop eating one thing and you notice the changes and so you can pinpoint it to that one thing and you're like, oh, it was that specific food. Well, during this awakening ego death thing that was happening, I was doing like three or four things at once. And there's just so many factors of life, situations and choices. It's hard to pinpoint if anything caused it or what caused it or if it was just a happy accident. It's really, it's really challenging because I often get the question like, how did it happen? How do I do it? People want to recreate it. They want to awaken. They want to have this thing happen. But I don't. I don't have the answer. It's. It's almost like divine grace or. Or just my own personal failure. Like, everything I tried didn't work. And everything in my life was getting worse and worse, and it just got to the point where I. I think it was just an internal, absolute exhausted. I give up. That actually finally caused the shift. Like, I just could not handle it anymore. I couldn't seek anymore. Nothing was working. Everything was getting worse. I actually felt for a while there at the end of my dark night of the soul, that I was gonna end up in a mental institution. Like, I thought I was going crazy. Everything was just. It was unbearable for about three or four days at the very end. And then something just broke open. I can't even. It's hard to describe what it was or if anything caused it, but whatever happened was absolutely beautiful. But then the lead up to it was so painful and so intense that it's really hard to, like, wish that on someone else or explain to someone else, like, yeah, just. Just give up and let your life completely fall apart to see the truth. So it was like just a really. It was a really painful path for me. And then now, obviously it's not painful, but to get there was just excruciating. And so that's kind of what I hone in on on my channel, I've noticed, is just the painful parts of awakening and the hard parts, because that's when I was going through it. That's the stuff I couldn't find. And so that's the content I try to make for people that are in the struggle versus, like, in a peaceful, blissful state. [00:05:04] Speaker A: Well, thank you for sharing. [00:05:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:06] Speaker A: Yeah. That seems to be the blueprint for all of us in some way, is an exhaustion of seeking. An exhaustion of grasping at the outside world, you know, exhaustion of trying to find fulfillment in the things that will. That we think will fulfill us. And it just reaches a breaking point, it seems. And, yeah, we all have our own journey and our own path in that way. We all have our own circumstances and karma, but I think we can all relate to that. It's this like, oh, there's got to be another way that you spoke of. So, yeah, Yeah, I think that's important to know. It's like a simultaneousness, right? It's like we all have our own, but it's all the same Destination, per se, you know? [00:05:58] Speaker B: Yeah. It ends in a beautiful. I mean, I. It's hard to say what it is. Nothing. Empty. It's just. I say empty, but it's not empty, but I think you kind of know what I mean. It ended in this empty, open spaciousness, which is where I live now. And it feels wonderful. But the path to get there. I always say it's like you have to walk through hell to get to heaven, and nobody told me that. I just thought I could skip the hell part, but I didn't know. It was rough. [00:06:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Now let's get into the heaven part. What is. What does this feel like? Like to maybe somebody that has no idea what the heck we're talking about right now. Where. Where did you eventually end up? You know, to be able to see through the darkness, see through your suffering in some way? [00:06:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:59] Speaker B: All this stuff's hard to explain, so I'll just try to do my best. [00:07:02] Speaker A: I know it's tough. We're just riffing here. [00:07:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Because it's. It's not like the mind wants to think like, I was here and now I'm here, but that's actually not what happens. The mind kind of disappears, and then you end up nowhere. But the nowhere. There's no problems or no issues. And even when I have an issue, like, it's not an issue. It's hard to explain. [00:07:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:30] Speaker B: So before I was. I was kind of dreaming that this thing called awakening would fix me and would help my issues because I just never felt right in any way. Even as young as I can remember, I just was always weird and kind of isolated. I had a couple friends. I was shy. I was scared. I had a lot of trauma. I didn't talk to people very much. And that became my personality. Just like this fearful person. And then trying to break out of that, you know, I tried everything. I had friends, I had. I had family. I. I got married. I had kids. I made a lot of money at one point. Like, I did all the things that you're supposed to do to find happiness, and I never found it. And then it wasn't where I am now, which I would call everything I ever wanted. Peace, happiness, all this stuff. It feels wonderful, but it isn't. It isn't like I. Like I reached the goal. It's like the goal got dissolved as it was impossible to find. And I finally just realized it doesn't exist. And then. And then the realization. It was so visceral and raw, like my whole body. I feel like something inside of me actually changed and shifted. Like, in a real physical sense, like, I'm healthier now. I don't really get sick. Like, whatever. I. I don't want to get into that because people might take that wrong. But everything changed in a way that, like, the struggle disappeared and I didn't reach anywhere. The things I was trying to reach, the mechanism that was trying to reach them just stopped. Just disappeared. So without the mechanism, it seems like all there is is just this equanimity and peace and like, flow of life. But I didn't. I never landed. I never reached a goal. It's like those things just stopped happening, if that makes sense. [00:09:39] Speaker A: Yeah, Freedom, man. [00:09:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:45] Speaker A: Yeah. You ever heard the saying, I think it's. It's either Trigam Trump or Rinpoche or Nisa Garcia that said this, that the bad news is we're in a free fall. And the good news is there's no bottom. [00:10:03] Speaker B: I haven't heard. [00:10:04] Speaker A: That's a good one, right? [00:10:05] Speaker B: That is what it feels like, though. Like, you don't. You never land anywhere and then you just realize that, oh, I'm. I'm just not going to land. And ego, like, still, like 10 months later. I still sometimes find myself waiting to land somewhere. Like, is there going to be somewhere to put my feet? And I don't think there is. And I think this is just how I'm maybe going to live now. It's weird. [00:10:33] Speaker A: On we go. Yeah, it's definitely strange. Yeah, but it's strange in a good way. [00:10:44] Speaker B: It's also really hard to talk about or teach because everybody that hasn't experienced it wants it, but there's nothing here to want. It's like, it's the lack of wanting. [00:11:01] Speaker A: Now let me ask you the repercussions of this in a, you know, pragmatic or humanly sense, you know, how is Aaron different than before? You know, you mentioned how you don't get sick and you said you don't want to get into it, that's fine. But maybe in your character and how you treat people and things of that nature, how are you different in that way? [00:11:21] Speaker B: Yeah, that changed a lot. But the beauty is I wasn't trying to change it. So there's like, practical. I always tried to be a better person previous to awakening. I was like, I've read all this, the whole self help section of every bookstore. I just always wanted to grow and change and improve. And I feel like I reached a limit to where people still annoyed me. It didn't matter how much I tried to see it from their perspective and how I tried to, you know, embrace a wider view. Deep down I was always just a little bit angry and just thought people were dumb. And I just was really just, just kind of judgmental because that's how I was raised. One of my parents is really judgmental. So I just got a lot of that. And it when the, when like an internal give up or shift happens and you just like when it was dropped and seen through now, it didn't relate to anyone else at the time. It was just me in my bedroom by myself. Everything came to like an emotional break and I just had this intense weeping on the floor. It was like I would just almost like everything that was never felt all came up and was felt in like three hours, which is extremely intense. And I wouldn't recommend it. Maybe a slow process is easier and that happens for some people, but mine was just all at once super intense. And in that moment I wasn't even sure what happened. But as I carried on throughout my next few weeks of life, I started to notice that I wasn't getting annoyed, that I wasn't angry, that no judgments were coming up. But it wasn't like the self help version when I was trying to not be judgmental. It just wasn't there. And I think because I saw through the mechanism in myself and we're all the same, it kind of by proxy like shows you everyone else, whether you want it to or not. It's like you see through yourself and then suddenly you see through everyone else. And so I could, I would been in situations at work where somebody is angry and yelling or mad at me personally. And I just look at them and it's like, I get it. I can see why you're mad. I can see all the mechanisms. I can see your whole like everything that's happening is so clear that I just can't really respond in anger anymore because I saw through it in myself and I don't respond in anger with myself. So it doesn't extend to anyone else. If you see somebody get angry or judgmental, usually I could probably say with confidence 100% of the time they're angry and judgmental at themselves. That's how they're treating themselves and it extends to everyone else. So when that disappears in you, you don't have to try to not be angry or judgmental. It just doesn't show up anymore because you saw through it and you don't treat yourself that way. That was kind of a long answer, but I think I maybe hit on what you said. [00:14:35] Speaker A: That's very well said. Yeah, for sure, man. And it comes from understanding, understanding yourself first. And then once you understand yourself, you realize that the self extends a little bit further than just yourself and you can see it in others. So if you can understand it within yourself, you can see it within the others that aren't really the others. Yeah. [00:14:58] Speaker B: And then you can kindly just bring up things like I've said really pretty pointed, like direct, maybe even harsh things to people. But it's not, it's not from a place of anger. So it's. It doesn't spark anger in the other person. Even if temporarily they get bothered by what I say. I'll just, you know, I'll reach towards the emotion or what's underneath what's happening, because I'm not triggered. And if you're not triggered, you can really help the other person more than if they get mad, then you get mad. Then your two egos just mad at each other. And that doesn't help anybody. But trying to do it is really hard. But when you really. When that mechanism starts to dissolve or break within you, then you don't have to try to do it. It just happens naturally, which is awesome. But it's a really hard road to get there because you have to be really honest with yourself first. And there is some ugliness in all of us. And if we can't look at it then, then we're not going to grow past it or see through it. [00:16:00] Speaker A: Yeah, very true. It's interesting, isn't it, that what happens, we could say, is we naturally just become more compassionate, more understanding. Right. And we don't even try. There is no thinking really involved. It's. I think it really just comes down to. Because it's the smoothest route. So it's like the easiest way to enjoy this experience is through ideally not having conflict or conflict resolution. Like, once you see through the mechanism, there is just the natural essence of conflict resolution. Like, there is no, like, why would I war with anybody? You know, why would I? Doesn't mean you're not going to defend yourself. Obviously, in certain. It's hard to generalize, but it's circumstantial. You know, it's situational. But. But for the most part, as you said, there's no reason to bicker anymore. There's no reason to get angry. It's really just toward like, all right, what's the solution here? In some way, naturally, we just are. It seems to be solution oriented. You know, it seems to be more that equanimity that you spoke of, it just flows. It's like contagious in a way. It's naturally contagious. That equanimity just isn't within yourself. It's like you bring that equanimity into the world with you. You know what I'm getting at? [00:17:31] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. [00:17:33] Speaker A: Yeah. That's just interesting to me how that is the natural state. Because we already talked about how we're free, right? You can do whatever you want. You can be whoever you want, but we don't. Or maybe what we really want is peace and equanimity. Maybe that's what it is. It's like you can do whatever you want, and what we all want is just peace with each other when it comes down to it. [00:18:00] Speaker B: You know, I actually have a funny story about that. So when I was going through this process, I was married and I was a Christian at the time, and obviously my religion slowly started to dissolve, like everything else in my life. And. And my ex wife is a Bible teacher. And so that caused a lot of issues in our relationship. Obviously I'm divorced now. But at one point I remember her looking at me and saying. She just looked at me confused. And I said, what? What are you thinking? And she said, I can't figure out how you don't believe in God anymore, but you have morals. Like, how are you still nice? [00:18:40] Speaker A: And I just. [00:18:41] Speaker B: At the time I looked back at her and I was like, I don't know, because I was always taught growing up that like, you had to have God or believe in God to be a good person. But here I was losing all my beliefs and everything I was ever taught and seemingly getting better. And it honestly doesn't make sense. It just. It proves to me now, over thinking about this for, you know, know, as long as I've been in it, that whatever, whatever the essence or the truth of this reality is, whatever people are waking up to, whatever they're seeing, whatever they're noticing is loving, has to do with love. I don't know why or how that works, but it's otherwise people would wake up, lose their religion, and just go do whatever they wanted, like, and hurt people and steal. But that's not the case exactly. It's like I feel the freedom to do what I want, but what I'm doing now is more loving and more patient than before. Yeah, it's strange, right? [00:19:46] Speaker A: It's fascinating. Well, because that's what really God is. And the Christians miss that one in the Bible, that's for sure. But it's in there. I don't know if maybe they gloss over that one, but that's really what it is. And it's beyond the conceptualization of love. Right? It's beyond the colloquial conditioning of love that we were brought up in. It's unconditional. And there's a big difference between conditional and unconditional love. They shouldn't even be the same word. And yeah, I think that's what people think when they say God is love. They think it's conditional. As in, like, you have to be a certain way and do a certain, you know, behave a certain way so that God will love you and that people will love you. Not necessarily. It's a little different than that. It's a deep. It's a deep topic. It's definitely deep. We could do a whole hour long podcast on that. But unconditional love. Point of my story here is unconditional love is. It's. I mean, I'm still figuring it out as we go. And it's. It's like you just be a good person, if you want to say it that way, for no reason at all. There's no reward. There's just. I'm just here. I'm just here with you for you. And quite simply, it's that. And I think, as you said, that is our natural essence. It's to be of service in the best way possible in whatever circumstance and situation that arises in your life. And that's God. That's all it is. God is found through all of our interactions with each other. It's not like a scary man in the sky that's dictating us putting conditions upon how we should or shouldn't act. It's. It's right here and right now. [00:21:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:38] Speaker A: You know? [00:21:39] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's like a felt way versus a understanding of anything. [00:21:46] Speaker A: Yeah, a felt way. I like that. Mm. It's the force, man. [00:21:55] Speaker B: I have a Green Saver. [00:21:56] Speaker A: Truly. You got the Green Saver, you said. [00:22:00] Speaker B: I mean, I guess you could take it, like, take all this understanding and. And twist it and maybe use it for your own gain. I don't know. I. I haven't really met anyone that's awakened or had an experience like this and kind of turned bad, but I'm sure it exists. Maybe it's possible. [00:22:22] Speaker A: Yeah. The dark forces. [00:22:24] Speaker B: Because it just seems like there's more going on than we'll ever be able to understand. And, I mean, there's still an interplay for a while of ego and and truth, like, you kind of go back and forth. And for a lot of people, in my case, ego slowly dissolves. So any time in there, like, I could make a choice to go the wrong direction, I think life would correct me because that's just how it seems to work. But, yeah, there's. It seems like there's stronger forces in the unknown and the unseen. And if that's true, then, yeah, there could be good and evil, but I don't know. I'm not smart enough to figure that out. [00:23:16] Speaker A: It seems like there is, but it seems to me that the good is way more powerful. And when I mean good, it's that unconditional love that we spoke on. It seems like that has a lot more of an influence than the bad, per se. It's really just ego versus non ego, I think. [00:23:37] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean. Yeah, because when you look at ego close enough, it's not really a thing. It doesn't really exist. Anything you bring into the light. Like, for me, fear was a big one. And when I really, finally turned the spotlight on my own fear, I didn't find anything. There was nothing there. And it seemed like, oh, this thing that has been controlling me my whole life doesn't even exist. But when I turn that around and really shone the light on, like, turned in on myself in the places that I felt love, it got stronger. So, like, whatever was there actually was there. It's something real. But the ego and fear and all that stuff, that just dissolves when you look at it, which proves to me that it's just an illusion. [00:24:25] Speaker A: That's it. Yeah. That's really the fight between light and dark, good and bad. We could say it's truth or illusion. [00:24:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:38] Speaker A: It's. Are you living a lie? Are you living in truth? And that's the thing, is the illusion is very tempting. Right. It'll try to sell you. Yeah, exactly. That's why it's easy. But it seems easy, you know, try to sell you over and over again. I definitely. I get the sales pitch over and over again, that's for sure. Temptation after temptation. But once you see through it, you don't unsee it. You don't unsee Oz once you peek behind the curtain and you really know what's up. So that's the thing. Yeah. You don't really go back into the Matrix the same way once you take the red pill and you know love is the truth, man. It may sound corny and cliche. We've said it enough. I've said it enough. I say it in every podcast. But just to reiterate it, to live in love is really the truth. And that's why we're here. I think. That's why. That's why we have this experience all together. And it's as simple as that. You know, you can get into like the intricacies of how this universe works. The dark forces, the light in the dark. And, and yeah, it's truly a mystery. But when it comes down to it, all we gotta see is that how we live truthfully here is to just live in love. To live for each other in some way. That's it. Just keep it at that. Keep it simple. We do that all in our own way. All in our own. Dharma. [00:26:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it's funny because I, you know, I get on YouTube and talk about seemingly deep concepts, but if, if somebody followed me during my daily life, it's really simple. I don't think about this stuff unless I'm making a video. I don't talk to other people about it. Maybe, maybe one or two people occasionally that I, that I know that can handle deeper concepts or have had their own experience. But as far as, you know, my family, my friends, I don't bring this stuff up. It would just freak them out. And I just go to work, I go home, I hang out with my kids. I just, I'm pretty ordinary. Like, I don't. You don't have to do anything fantastic. You don't have to lead. You know, a big group of people, start an organization. You can just be a janitor. I mean, it doesn't even matter. Like, once you see really doesn't matter. Like you could change the world single handedly or you could do nothing. And it seems like the weight is the same. Which is the. [00:27:06] Speaker A: Yeah, and the weight. Yeah, you say? That's the beautiful part. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Man in the weight of that janitor could hold more weight than somebody who is trying to. What's the word when you try to like, preach too much? What is that called? [00:27:27] Speaker B: Annoying. [00:27:29] Speaker A: Annoying. Yeah, exactly. [00:27:31] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:27:32] Speaker A: I'm sure there's a word, you know. Yeah, there's a word. When religious zealots, they go out and they try to preach too much. I can't think of it right now for some reason. I'll put it at the bottom of the screen. [00:27:40] Speaker B: Evangelism is what it's called. [00:27:42] Speaker A: And that's it. So the janitor could hold more weight than somebody that's trying to evangelize this whole thing, you know, and they're not even Talking about it at all. They're just doing their thing, cleaning the floors really well, saying hi to people, putting a smile on people's face. That could hold so much more weight and power to this so called truth than somebody that is just has a podcast trying to talk about it on the Internet. [00:28:06] Speaker B: You know, it's funny because yeah, words don't ever do it justice. But you know, and some people get mad and they say like, why do you even talk about it? Because it's past language or, you know, it's not even known and you're doing a disservice by even talking about it. But in my mind, if I never heard it talked about or got frustrated by hearing people in the state that I'm currently in now, I wouldn't have known it was possible. And then it led me into a struggle with my mind, which was annoying, but it had to happen to get where, where I am. And it's. So talking about it may not like help or lead anybody to it, but I guess at the least it shows that whatever this is that we can't put language around is possible. And that's why a lowly worker could have impact more than a preacher. Because they're lived life like you get around somebody and you can feel their calm and their loving nature versus, I mean, maybe not online as much, but so we talk about it and people can either believe or not or relate or it resonates or it doesn't. But in life, when I am around people, my kids, my ex, my family, they can feel it. And I know they can because they ask and they, they are different around me and they know something happened, although it scares them. And some of them I can't talk to about it. But it's when, when you change internally, you don't have to talk about it if you don't want to. Now if somebody asks multiple times, I will tell them about it. But YouTube is different because you're just shouting into the ether. You know, you never know who's picking up on these things. But in life, it's not something I really talk about much unless somebody's really interested or, or, or presses it. [00:30:07] Speaker A: Yeah, well said. Yeah. Or else you risk being annoying. [00:30:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And then you're just one of those guys that's like trying to change everybody, which is kind of evidence that you. That the internal change hasn't happened. [00:30:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:21] Speaker B: What you realize everything is perfect the way it is and nothing needs to change. [00:30:26] Speaker A: There it is. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's all perfect, man. Even the ignorance Even the shitty stuff. Even the darkness of the world. Yeah. To see that it's all perfect. It all has a place. That's a huge realization. [00:30:45] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I used to think my life was terrible, but then after. After this shift, my memories almost got rewired, or I could look back and see them like, oh. Oh, that depression I went through was absolutely beautiful. And it was needed and it led to this. So it's like in the middle of pain, we don't see it and we just want out. But. But after this, after this realization, you start to embrace pain. Like when something starts hitting me, like sadness or grief, which I've had to go through being recently divorced. Now, instead of resisting or fighting it, I just. I welcome it. Like, I let the feeling be there, and I just. Like, I can feel more pain and sadness than I've ever felt previous. But at the same time, underneath, there's a peace and a beauty, and I just know that this is it. There's nowhere to go. There's nowhere to hide from this. I'm not going to put up walls. I'm just going to let this experience happen. Even if it's not pleasant or not comfortable, which I find previous to a shift or an awakening. Everybody is trying to get out of discomfort, and that actually can become a trap over time. But that's how it starts for people. I mean, you get uncomfortable, you want to not suffer, and then you go on a spiritual path, and then you find out, oh, suffering is beautiful. And it's like. It's part of the process. But it's so amazing to be able to just embrace all of it and not have a need to change it. Because there's no ego whispering in your ear that you should be somewhere else. Because there is nowhere else. [00:32:32] Speaker A: There's nowhere else. Yeah. It's also important to note, too, it doesn't mean when I get a headache, I'm not going to take an ibuprofen. [00:32:40] Speaker B: Yeah. There's practical stuff. [00:32:42] Speaker A: Yeah. But on the other side of the coin, there's only so much we can do. If we get hurt, we get sick. That's a huge test for me, is when I get sick. Because there's nothing you can do. When you get sick, it's just like, all right, well, I got it now, so here we go. I know you said you don't get sick. [00:32:59] Speaker B: I mean, it's probably still possible. I just. I think my immune system got better, is not that I'm superhuman. I just think with a. With, like, whatever happened inside my Body, I, I, I feel like I have a perfectly regulated nervous system is the way that the best I can describe it. [00:33:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I feel you. [00:33:18] Speaker B: I used to be sick so much that if somebody was sick, like in another city, I would pick up on it because my body was just like primed for being sick all the time. And that stopped. Not that I can't get sick. It just doesn't seem to happen now. [00:33:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. I was just making it joke. [00:33:35] Speaker B: I'm a guy and guys are wimps when they're sick, so. [00:33:40] Speaker A: Yeah, right. [00:33:41] Speaker B: I never handled it as good as my ex wife. She would breeze through sickness, I would complain the whole time. [00:33:48] Speaker A: Yeah. But point of the story is shit's gonna happen. And I can recognize that now. I imagine you can recognize that we're all, as the Buddha saw, we're all going to get old, sick and die. But there is beauty still in that. There's beauty about the whole process that we're involved in. And that is truly priceless to see the beauty in the suffering. And that sounds so crazy to say, right? People that have no idea, which I imagine people do, have an idea of what we're talking about now, listening this long, but let's say, hypothetically, they don't have any idea what we're talking about for me to say there's beauty in suffering. Yeah, that's actually the case. There is. There is beauty in it all. And you can't negate the suffering. That's the thing. It's all perfect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:34:41] Speaker B: It's unusual. That's one thing I probably wouldn't tell someone just in conversation, because people don't get that. Yeah, but if they listen to this, they probably get it. But yeah, it's like even underneath the hardest emotions, there's just a sense of everything's okay regardless. Because, you know, if the dark night of the soul and the ego, death didn't kill me, then, then I'm pretty much immortal until I die. [00:35:07] Speaker A: That's it. [00:35:07] Speaker B: It's like, what? [00:35:08] Speaker A: And then maybe even after you die. Yeah. [00:35:10] Speaker B: What else is gonna kill me? [00:35:12] Speaker A: Nothing. I mean, that's another big pill to swallow too, is our invulnerability, our seeming immortality. Not necessarily of the body, but of some something. There is this essence, the force that we spoke of, this force of love is what lives on. And that, again, is hard to say. You can't just say that to somebody that has no idea. But I feel it. There is this essence of nothing can really harm what I am. Past the body, past all the comings and going of my life. The true, deepest essence that is ineffable, that we cannot really. We can. We're trying to talk about here, but not really doing it. Justice, I feel is immortal, is eternal, endless, infinite. Many different ways to describe it, but I feel like there's something that is a thread, right? We could say. And I think that's where you get into the essence of reincarnation. Again, that's a whole deep topic. That's a whole rabbit hole in itself. But I think there's something that we touch upon in this realization that we see as deathless. And that's a huge one. [00:36:23] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's definitely something that falls when this process takes place. The best I can describe it is I went from living in my physical body to living like, in the empty space that's in my body. And so it's like whatever I am, whatever I feel every day now isn't the body that I know is going to die. But it doesn't like the fear of that and the pain and the. And the constant running of the ego to try to ignore the fact that we're gonna die, you know, get money, get this, get that. And it's like, do all these things because it's really just fear of death that disappears because you don't like it. Like, it's a real felt experience. It's not like the mental understanding of, oh, I'm not the body, I'm not gonna die. Like, it's. You actually somehow shift out of identity with the body and it becomes like a lived, felt experience, which is awesome. But it's. You know, I have no idea how that happened or how to explain that to people. Yeah, it just happened. [00:37:29] Speaker A: I know, right? Yeah. It's just a miracle, really. [00:37:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:36] Speaker A: I think you said in the beginning it's grace. [00:37:39] Speaker B: Seems like it, yeah. I mean, I know there's practices and things, but it's funny because it's like they don't get you there. They just show you that nothing is going to work. [00:37:50] Speaker A: That's a good one. [00:37:51] Speaker B: Finally give up. It's like the practice itself, if done correctly, will annihilate itself. Like, eventually you get to a place where you're like, oh, I don't need this practice, because that's not the thing that's going to work. What's going to work is nothing. And then it leads you to a place of, I guess, surrender. And then it just. And then that's it. But, man, it's a struggle for a lot of people. Just to get to that point. And for me, I say that because I get emails a lot and I know people are like really struggling with that, that final surrender, because you do feel like you're actually going to die because you're identified with the body. And so when you start separating from the ego, it feels like a real death. And I have. Well, this is going to sound weird. I've had the privilege of an, of an actual near death experience and an ego death. And I think the ego death experience was worse. And I don't even know how or why that's the case, but it definitely seemed harder and more intense. [00:38:53] Speaker A: Now that's fascinating. [00:38:56] Speaker B: Yeah, they were both pretty pathetic. [00:39:01] Speaker A: Why do you say pathetic? [00:39:03] Speaker B: The first one, it was an overdose on drugs in my party years. I was pretty young and I got to the point where I just knew, like I could feel it in my body that I thought, oh, this is it. Like, so that last five or ten minutes there I was, I was panicking, you know, as anybody probably would, and I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe this. I'm only in my 20s, I'm about to die. What's my mom going to think? Like the internal process was very pathetic in the way that is just clinging to life. And the last 10 or 20 seconds before I lost consciousness, I remember feeling the most peace I've ever felt in my entire life because I actually gave up and accepted the fact that this is it, I'm going to die. So. So when I stopped clinging to life and let go of it, peace just flooded my whole system. And then luckily I didn't die. I don't know how I got revived or woke up and went through a long detox process and ended up alive, which is great. And then the ego death, that was like a longer. That was like two or three days for me of just the same process just clinging on to, like, I can't, I can't let this go. And it felt like, like somebody like ripping my mind out. Like if I actually detach from my mind, then that will be it, then I'll drop dead is what it felt like. And the clinging to that was somehow more intense than clinging to my actual life when I was overdosing on drugs is a very similar process. But the ego death was. It just seemed more. It was more chaotic, like had more of a hold on me than actual life, which is. [00:40:59] Speaker A: That's crazy. Yeah, I mean that's just the power of the ego right there. [00:41:07] Speaker B: Yeah, mine is very abrupt. It was a Very abrupt, tearing apart. And I know that's not the case for everybody, but that's how mine worked. [00:41:17] Speaker A: Well, thank you for sharing that, man. [00:41:19] Speaker B: Wow. [00:41:20] Speaker A: Okay. [00:41:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:24] Speaker A: Just wow. Yeah, I'm just like, caught up on that. How you say that. I've never heard that before. How you say the ego death was more powerful than an actual near death experience. I'm gonna sit with that one for a second. [00:41:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know how to place it either. I just. I've had the experience, but I haven't really tried to make too much sense of it because I don't think it really leads anything. Yeah, I mean, maybe someday I'll share it on YouTube if people are interested. But also, I don't want to scare people, but I do tend to hone in on the part that's like the challenging parts of awakening, because, you know, I feel like that's where people actually need videos that tell them you're okay, you're not going insane. [00:42:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Do you see that as your. I think you already mentioned this a little bit, but do you see that as your service is a sense of grounding to this whole thing? [00:42:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it didn't start out well. I guess it did start out that way. My very first video was. Was titled, like, the Hard Parts of Awakening. And that was before I even had had an awakening. I just knew I was in a process that was really painful. And so, yeah, I guess it started that way and it just kind of continued to be that way because I always found people talking about, you know, there's some older, wiser, more enlightened people I've listened to on YouTube for years, and they always talk about. They just seem so peaceful and everything they're talking about seems so great. And I never really heard them talk about pre awakening and like the first shift, which I've heard there's more. I don't know if there's, you know, successive, if it just keeps going, whatever. But that first initial shift, when you really see through everything and how hard that is. So when it happened to me, I didn't know it was happening because I'd never heard anyone else talk about it. So then I. I just started YouTube thinking, like, I'm just gonna chart. I'm gonna. I'm gonna record my process like a diary. You know, I'm gonna. I'm gonna tell people what's happening, how it's working, how terrible it is, how good it feels, all. All the stuff, because I feel like that's the most helpful versus it is Nice seeing somebody really far down the path. And how peaceful. [00:43:45] Speaker A: And how. [00:43:45] Speaker B: And how just looking at them, you can tell like they. They've really landed in a place or not landed anywhere and just became really peaceful. But yeah, that first part, there's just a lot of. It's hard. It's really hard. And nobody really hones in on that. They kind of gloss over that part because when you do actually shift, it's almost like you kind of forget about that part because it disappears and you realize it wasn't even real and you just live in this peaceful place. But, you know, I'm aware that there's a lot of people now seem to be in the world that are awakening almost on accident, not even trying, or people just not even in a tradition. It seems to be more common and they don't know where to go. So a lot of them go to YouTube and they're searching. Dark night of the soul. Like, what's happening? And so I've made quite a few videos on. On the hard part, because when I was searching, I didn't really find anything. I think there are more now, but I think that people need their handheld a little bit. [00:45:02] Speaker A: And the thing is, too, is it doesn't even matter how many. It's about the specific people that will resonate with you. [00:45:10] Speaker B: Yeah. If I help one person, that's good enough for me. I don't really care about numbers. [00:45:15] Speaker A: Yep. And that one person might just resonate just with you. Right. There's thousands of other teachers online, but there might be just a connection that is made with that one person or a few people. [00:45:26] Speaker B: That's the cool part. I mean, there are spiritual teachers I don't really jive with, although I know they're speaking from the same place. And there's just a few that I really like. Probably personality, who knows? [00:45:37] Speaker A: Yeah. I think there's a certain magic in the transmission, and you have to find what one is just simply resonant with. More than just at a mind level, at an intellectual level, at a felt, sense level. Like, there's some people again that I just feel them. Right. Like I feel the soul behind their words. And that's what I go with. That's what I follow when. When I bring people on here and when I listen to talks myself, I just. Like there's something in the resonance in their vibration. I don't know what it is, actually, but it's a felt thing that is just like an affirmative or the opposite or just like a negative. You know, something where I'm Just like, it's not necessarily bad. Like, I don't. I don't hate the person, but I'm just like, oh, they're not for me. When somebody is for me, it's just like, ah, it's this pull. You know, I feel that with Ram Dass. [00:46:33] Speaker B: Yeah, probably a lot of people feel that with him. He's got such a great personality. [00:46:37] Speaker A: Yeah, he's got the quality and quantity. But I've known people. I met this guy not too long ago who hated on Ram Dass, and I'm just like, what do you mean you don't like Ram Dass? And he's on the path. He was a yogi. You know, we talked, we got along very well. And he was just like, yeah, I don't get that guy. Some, like, white yogi. He's like, I don't know. I don't really like him. And I'm just like, huh? What do you mean? [00:47:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess I've never met anyone that didn't like him because he's just. He's like a comedian. So everybody just kind of likes him. [00:47:06] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. He's hard not to like. But there. There's people out there somehow. Yeah. [00:47:12] Speaker B: I mean, I've learned from being on YouTube that you could. I could get on here and just say, I love everybody, and I'll get somebody. That's the comments. I hate you. It's like, what? [00:47:22] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah, it has nothing. That's the beauty of it, man. That's also. That's part of the beauty, right, Is that we're all different. We all. There is no, like, cookie cutter one teacher. There's no cookie cutter. Path is. We're all unique. We're all unique snowflakes. But it's true. And, yeah, I don't know. There's just like. There's just something very magical about that, something very cool to me. Like, we all have. We all have, like, a special place in this mandala, you know, it's all just like a tapestry, and you got to find out what you're closest to, what you relate to the most in this whole tapestry that we're in. And. Yeah. Well, I thank you for sharing your part of the tapestry, Aaron. Yeah. You know, and. Yeah, I think that's. That's part of the path. It seems to me I find a correlation of people wanting to give back in some way, you know, wanting to come on and just document it, be a testament to this whole thing. And then people join along, you know, it's community. It's the Sangha. I think that's just part of the. Part of the integration and embodiment of this whole thing. Yeah. [00:48:31] Speaker B: And everybody has their. Their view. So even if everybody's talking from the same place, it's filtered through the person and their personality. So they're going to be. You know, every teacher is going to be different and say things differently. And for me, personally, I was always helped the most. I remember being really young, talking to older, wiser men, and when they told me about their struggles and the fact that they still struggled in certain areas, when I viewed them as, like, perfect, it did something in me that was really. It was really opening. Like, it opened my heart in a way that I couldn't really describe as much as sometimes it's uncomfortable. I try to share, like, where I failed and where this stuff hasn't been good or where I've. You know, like, I have a video where I talk about getting mad at my daughter. She's five. Obviously, the problem there is me, not her. And it's. It's to me talking about the failure and the. And kind of the darker side of this stuff is obviously I'm going to attract a different crowd, but that's. That's what helped me. So that's kind of what I'm sharing. [00:49:43] Speaker A: And in that regard, like attracts, like, you know, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. And sometimes the teacher may be suggested to you on YouTube. I know. [00:49:55] Speaker B: Thank God for YouTube. It just helped me out. [00:49:58] Speaker A: Seriously. Yeah. Honestly, you shout out the whole Internet altogether and the technology that we're literally using right now, it's magic. [00:50:06] Speaker B: Yeah, it's pretty amazing because, I mean, 20, 30 years ago, if you started having this internal shift and started freaking out and your life's falling apart, like, who are you going to talk to about it? You're going to call someone from India? [00:50:19] Speaker A: Yeah, you have to take a flight to India. Like Ram Dass. Yeah, literally. [00:50:22] Speaker B: And that's what he had to do back then because it wasn't really. It wasn't very popular in America. [00:50:29] Speaker A: So momentous times we are in, my friend. [00:50:31] Speaker B: Yeah, it's wild. [00:50:35] Speaker A: Well, it's an honor to be able to do this with you. I think this is an awesome talk. I think we talked about everything we needed to talk about today. So, yeah, we can start to wrap it up. But do you have anything else you want to say before we stop recording? [00:50:52] Speaker B: I mean, I guess everybody has their main message, and mine would be what really broke it open for me and what I kind of really try to push and share in every video is to never bypass any feeling that comes up. So to me what helped and what I try to share is feel everything. Even if it feels like you're going to die, you're not going to die. And to just let your body feel it because the minute you block a feeling it gets shoved right up to your mind and your ego creates all these stories around it and then you have to spend years battling your mind and your thoughts when they're all just built around a feeling that you resisted. So instead of fighting the mind, just let your body feel everything and then the mind will dissolve. That was my way. That's how it worked for me and that's kind of my main message. [00:51:49] Speaker A: Awesome. Well, thank you Aaron. Yeah, keep up the awesome work. [00:51:56] Speaker B: Thanks. [00:51:56] Speaker A: This is a great talk. I wish you all the best man. [00:52:00] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:52:01] Speaker A: Peace and love everybody.